• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The other Trek series for fans of DISCO

Some went on to enjoy other Trek series, but a few were driven away by the toxic, moronic elements of the fanbase. Case in point:
The fact that crying is considered a bad thing in a fandom that espouses IDIC as it's watch phrase makes me far more suspicious of whatever videos are out to support their POV.

Sorry, but saying crying is worthy of scorn is causing significant flashbacks to middle school bullying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLA
I don't think crying is worthy of scorn, but too much of that kind from a captain of a ship doesn't look too good imo.

Can you imagine Kirk or Picard or Sisko or Janeway doing that? I can't.

Again, Sonequa-Green is a wonderful actress, but after all I've seen of Burnham, she just doesn't convince me she should be the captain of any starship. She wouldn't be on the Mt. Rushmore of Star Trek with Kirk, Picard, and Sisko (and Janeway too imo) as I read in a recent series review.
 
Can you imagine Kirk or Picard or Sisko or Janeway doing that? I can't.
That doesn't make it bad. I'd like to imagine it because crying is healthy. It's damn frustrating to me to see something I was mocked for as a young man and such further mocked in a fandom espousing a balanced approach, yet preferring cold logic.


She wouldn't be on the Mt. Rushmore of Star Trek with Kirk, Picard, and Sisko (and Janeway too imo) as I read in a recent series review.
So?

She's a captain. So is Robau and Archer and Pike. I don't care about mount Rushmore of captains but people I can learn from. Though even Worf being a captain I find far more difficult to find inspiring than Burnham.

Mileage will vary and I'll admit that I'm biased but the frustration grows each time I see "she's always crying."

No, she's not and it's not a bad thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLA
That’s a very misguided elephant given Discovery began on Netflix in most of the world. I know several people for whom it was their first Trek series.
Sorry about that. That's American-centrist thinking for you. We just do it automatically without even thinking.

Some went on to enjoy other Trek series, but a few were driven away by the toxic, moronic elements of the fanbase. Case in point:
I never let assholes drive me away from something I might like. If anything, people like that complaining about it would make me even more interested in watching. Not less. It's like the people who say "STD sucks! They made it woke!"

To be honest, if I were discovering Star Trek today, I'd still sample some of TOS first because it's first (no other real reason), and I'd sample some of TNG because it's the one that came out in the '80s (when I was a kid) but, after that, it would be pick-and-choose for me. I'd look at whatever Star Trek show interests me the most and watch that next. And thanks to those "STD sucks! They made it woke!" people, I'd think "Thanks! Discovery's the next one I'm watching! If you hate it, it must be pretty good!"
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLA
STAR TREK DISCVOERY is THE BEST STAR TREK EVER :)

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

I LOVE IT
Y'know, she does cry A LOT.

I recall reading a review written by someone at the end of Discovery where he talked about the excessive emotion of Burnham and the rest of the characters, how it didn't seem very professional.

She sticks out like a sore thumb compared to Kirk, Picard, Sisko, and Janeway.

I guess I don't get it. It just seems like the showrunners or writers just didn't think the development of this character through. Again, she just doesn't seem like someone who should be captain of a starship. Sonequa Green is a wonderful actress, and a lot of that has to do with how she sells her feelings to the audience, but I just wonder if her character was kind of hurt by all the relationships, the mutinies, etc.

I generally enjoyed Discovery, thanks to the action, the production, and the stories, but, man, I just did not warm to this cast at all compared TOS, TNG, DS9, and half of VOY.
 
Isn't the whole point of the character that she isn't fit to be captain for the first three years?

She was repressed having grown up on Vulcan, carrying a whole load of childhood trauma, which leads to her volatile emotions getting the better of her, making her act with instinct which she mistakes for logic.

This point is repeatedly made, and it's only after the third season, when she's had that year out doing her own thing with Book, that helps her grow. And it's still a bumpy ride, but by the end she's earned the trust of Vance.

I don't disagree with all the criticisms - I don't think the arc was played out particularly well and it maybe wasn't apparent enough to the audience why she did what she did half the time. I think that structurally it probably was a mistake to have the two-part pilot episode which effectively showed her mutinying and starting a war. It would have played out better to start with episode three, Prisoner Burnham picked up by Discovery and Lorca, and then gradually tell the story in flashback.

I'm also not entirely sure if it felt like she'd earned the captain's chair by the end of season three. I might have held it back until the next season.
 
The "crying" complaint is questionable because its apparent premise is that the crying is somehow happening inappropriately or at unprofessional times and that just isn't the case. People trying to pretend otherwise often seem not to actually know anything about the context of how events happen on the show. It often sounds like an excuse for some other issue that people aren't willing to actually elucidate, like a mere pretext; much like the "whispering" complaint that preceded it in fashionability. (Anyone remember when Burnham was supposedly "always whispering"? Good times.)

For example, I remember complaints about their having some kind of "kumbaya crying circle mid-mission" in one of the episodes of Season Four: and that's literally the episode and the scene where the crew learn that Species 10-C communicates through emotion-bearing chemical compounds. That salient fact somehow never makes its way into the complaints, and way too much of this stuff is like that: examine the actual context and the complaints turn out to be petty, trivial, laboriously illogical.

Factually, in-context, the DSC crew sucks it up, deals with crises in the moment and deals with their emotions and mental health later just as you'd expect any other crew to do. Burnham is no different and is perfectly acceptable for pulp SF values of inspiring leadership, even in early seasons where she's rough around the edges.

Where DSC is different from other Trek shows is that it makes an explicit decision to really show the "dealing with emotions and mental health" step, and to show it as a consistent process that is part of the necessity of the crew's survival. In this sense, it extends ideas first seen in TOS -- where McCoy served as Kirk's confessor -- and then in TNG where we see Troi play a similar role in talk therapy sessions with a broader range of the crew. DSC's treatment of mental health is more extensive than either, the range of permissible emotion much broader, the people permitted to engage in it skewing far more female and of-color and gay and nonbinary, the entire definition of a hero much less based on masculine stoicism.

That's a noticeable difference and an interesting one. And (bracketing out the issue of misogynoir regarding Burnham specifically) I think it's the real root of the "crying" complaints. The basic model of original Trek was being idealized Navy. The depiction of heroism in DSC is, by design and particularly when we get to the 31st century, un-military. The degree of emotional unguardedness Burnham and her crew have with each other, no matter its timing, would get you chewed up in any IRL military and reflexively, that's the formula a lot of Trek fans (consciously or not) expect shows to follow.

I understand that frustration at some level. A different version of me, a younger version of me, might have become a DSC "hater" out of this same instinct. Fortunately it hit for me at a time when I was ready for something different, when I was putting these kinds of things in perspective, and so I was able to enjoy it.

Ultimately, I think it's perhaps the show's single most interesting decision. I think it's a key part of what makes DSC stand apart from other shows. I also think it spoke to a cultural moment -- the best Trek tends to speak directly to its cultural moment rather than nerd obsessions with "continuity" and "verisimilitude" -- where our society needed (and needs) to step back and carefully examine what it thinks "heroism" is and why. I think that will be an enduring part of its legacy, and it's what earns Burnham her place at the Captains' table. I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top