"Politics" was weak - but at least in part important, because we got to know Senator Kinsey. "Out of Mind"s premise was... okay - the only thing, that made me go "eh", was, that the cliffhangers solution in season 3 just killed off Hathor.
In defence of Shades of Gray
- Thread starter AntonyF
- Start date
The fact there was so many was part of the problem, and always about the same time of year.
The other ones I seem to remember were First Wave. I haven't seen that in a long time, but I think they filmed extra footage to extend existing scenes. Or was that SG1?
The other ones I seem to remember were First Wave. I haven't seen that in a long time, but I think they filmed extra footage to extend existing scenes. Or was that SG1?
I actually kind of like that every 25-episode Ultraman season does a clip show as episode 13, since it's a good time to take stock and get reminded of the storyline so far. Although the seasons are generally split into two 12-episode arcs.
Elsewhere in tokusatsu, the 2023-4 Ohsama Sentai King-Ohger did a fantastic clip show, because it was the episode that revealed a main character's secret master plan that had been playing out through the entire season. So it didn't feel like a clip show at all, since the recaps were vitally important to the story beat of revealing that everything we thought we knew was wrong. All the recycled footage was used in a way that made it feel entirely new, because it was completely recontextualized and explained all the season's mysteries. It might be the most brilliantly constructed clip show I've ever seen.
But TNG had setup for DS9 in the form of crossover introductions, in Birthright & then later in Firstborn (Quark) & Preemptive Strike (for the Maqui)
Those aren't setup, because they came after DS9 premiered.
The "Birthright" two-parter, "Firstborn", and "Preemptive Strike" were already AFTER DS9 started, so those couldn't set up the show if it's already in existence.
As for the Maquis, DS9 actually produced and aired "THE MAQUIS" two-parter before TNG even mentions them.
"Preemptive Strike" DOES help the setup for VOYAGER, as did other Maquis episodes of DS9 at that time.
"The Wounded", "Ensign Ro", and the "Chain Of Command" two-parter helped setup DS9.
"Chain of Command" did, but as I said, the previous two didn't, or at least weren't intended as setup, because DS9 hadn't been conceived yet when they were written. It wasn't until later that it was decided to build DS9 around Bajor and Cardassia, as well as the wormhole concept from "The Price."
So those episodes could only be said to "set up" DS9 retroactively, the way that, say, "Space Seed" could be retroactively seen as setup for The Wrath of Khan. But I think that's defining setup too broadly.
We just have differing takes on what setup means. Opening up more audience to the show, & expanding existing things still sets it up imho, especially in its launch period
Considering the Cardassians and Bajorans didn't exist before "The Wounded" and "Ensign Ro" and how large a part of DS9 they were, that DOES help setup DS9. Just like how TOS helped setup TNG because it laid the foundation for the franchise... Starfleet, the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, etc. And TNG wasn't conceived yet when TOS ended in 1969.
I'd hardly call DS9's second season its 'launch period', since it ran concurrently with TNG season 7. Both "Firstborn" and "Preemptive Strike" were not only in TNG season 7, but at the TAIL END of that season.
I agree that they helped make DS9 more known (or at least was an attempt to), but calling them 'setup' episodes is certainly not accurate.
Retroactively, they can be seen as laying the groundwork, yes. But they were not intended to set up a future series when they were created, because nobody knew at the time that DS9 would exist. "Chain of Command" is different, because the whole reason it was written was as advance promotion for DS9, just as the Maquis episodes of TNG and DS9 were written for the specific purpose of setting up the backstory for Voyager. The difference may not be obvious to the viewer in retrospect, but there's a fundamental difference in the intent. I interpret the word "setup" to mean a deliberate introduction or preparation for something upcoming.
Then how we interpret 'setup' is where we differ.
Whether it's intentional or not at the time of filming or writing, "The Wounded" and "Ensign Ro" both were big pieces of setting up DS9, just as Wolf 359 was the setup for Sisko being a widow and the start of his journey of moving past the grief and pain of losing his wife.
And obviously, a setup would be before what was being set up aired.
I just can't see it that way. "Set up" implies intention, a knowing choice by the person doing the setting up. If I say or do something, and another person independently decides to do something else in response to what I said or did, I wasn't setting them up, because I had no idea they were going to do that. Rather, they were following up on me. By the same token, "The Wounded" and "Ensign Ro" didn't set up DS9; rather, DS9 followed up on them.
I guess the difference is that you're looking at the episodes as self-contained entities, whereas I, being a writer, am looking at them as the creations of their own writers and filmmakers. So the intent behind the creation matters to me.
Retroactive foreshadowing, then.
I think "Politics" works really well for me because I tend not to rewatch a lot of Season 1, so having that episode kick off or reinforce the end of season arc gives me a refresher of where we're at. Also Kinsey is such a great part of that episode, just used so masterfully and it ends on such a down note.
As I said, it seems that we look at 'setup' differently. Intentional or not, the material of those episodes is being used to setup a new show.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
Well, for one thing, as a verb it's two words, "set up." "Setup" is a noun derived from the verb phrase.
Would the episode have been better if it had centered around a different character?
Possibly. I've heard an idea before that having Picard be on the bed and him remembering times Wesley was in danger, and the feelings of guilt he had to come to terms with because he was putting his dead best friend's son in danger. I thought that idea had some real merit.
Though I still like how "Shades Of Gray" illustrates the inherent danger of space travel, which was a common thread that seemed to run throughout season 2. It's one of the reasons why I think that season is better than many say.
I was just thinking whether you could do Q doing another court case but this time he's the defense attorney and the TNG cast are playing Q continuum members. Maybe Picard show up at minute 40 to make a speech.
Similar threads
