Garrett Series/TV Show?

[El Maestro]

That's cause they were often portrayed as good guys from the perspective of the protagonists or were merely a product of the system they grew up in. It doesn't help that the DS9 writers messed up several aspect of Dukat's character which made him relatively moderate for a Cardassian.

Trying to imagine what collection of personality disorders you’d need to have to think Dukat was Good Actually

 

[Phily B]

Trying to imagine what collection personality disorders you’d need to think Dukat was Good Actually

The writers completely underplayed the numbers of the Bajoran occupation which actually backed up his arguments he made. Then for most of the show he was more of an anti-villain, even Kira fell to his charm very very very briefly.

 

[fireproof78]

So people who are products of a system get a pass?

 

[fireproof78]

Trying to imagine what collection of personality disorders you’d need to have to think Dukat was Good Actually

Rude. Personality disorders are not a joke.

 

[Phily B]

So people who are products of a system get a pass?

No but it makes them more understandable when they're portrayed by a charismatic actor who nails the part and has many many episodes where the characters treat him with a degree of respect and he helps the main characters progress.

 

[fireproof78]

No but it makes them more understandable when they're portrayed by a charismatic actor who nails the part and has many many episodes where the characters treat him with a degree of respect and he helps the main characters progress.

But no pass so people shouldn't like him but do?

But only in Dukat or Kor's case because they're likable.

Makes no sense to me.

 

[Phily B]

But no pass so people shouldn't like him but do?

But only in Dukat or Kor's case because they're likable.

Makes no sense to me.

The DS9 writers have talked about this multiple times, which is where Duet and Dukat becoming a comic book villain came from. It happens in real life too, the US just had an election where it was essentially Hitler 1 vs Hitler 2.

 

[Turtletrekker]

My head canon about Garrett is that the Federation wanted someone there to unofficially keep an eye on the Cardassians, who would be a new rising power on the scene in 2324.

 

[cooleddie74]

It happens in real life too, the US just had an election where it was essentially Hitler 1 vs Hitler 2.

No.

 

[cooleddie74]

My head can in about Garrett is that the Federation wanted someone there to unofficially keep an eye on the Cardassians, who would be a new rising power on the scene in 2324.

The timeline works out. Cardassia invaded Bajor in 2309 and that would be right about the time a power like the Cardassian Union should be making headlines within the Federation for its aggressive territorial adventurism.

 

[Phily B]

No.

Are people on here incapable of anything but "snark" mode?

Gul Dukat wasn't uniquely evil, if he wasn't in charge of the occupation then someone else would have been and they would have been far worse - that was his argument which was backed up by on screen evidence. It's also the same argument we're seeing played out live and in living colour the past year.

 

[cooleddie74]

All I can say is: if anyone saw the 2024 U.S. election as Hitler 1 versus Hitler 2 and is not being facetious....snark is the appropriate choice of mood.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Are people on here incapable of anything but "snark" mode?

Seems a reasonable response to people in constant hyperbolic hate mode.

 

[Phily B]

Seems a reasonable response to people in constant hyperbolic hate mode.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Okay, but no hugs.

 

[Phily B]

All I can say is: if anyone saw the 2024 U.S. election as Hitler 1 versus Hitler 2 and is not being facetious....snark is the appropriate choice of mood.

Joe Biden supported the genocide of hundreds of thousands of people were systematically killed in a population of two million.

Gul Dukat was a key figure in an occupation where millions died in a population hitting in the billions.

Hence Gul Dukat wasn't a unique evil, it is why Gul Dukat for large portions of the show was liked by the audience. Framing, perspective etc. The writers big problem with Dukat was that they really should have made the death toll of the occupation far far worse.

 

[The Old Mixer]

It happens in real life too, the US just had an election where it was essentially Hitler 1 vs Hitler 2.

Joe Biden supported the genocide of hundreds of thousands of people were systematically killed in a population of two million.

Take this shit to Miscellaneous or TNZ, it doesn't belong here. That goes for anyone inclined to respond to it as well.

 

[Phily B]

We're talking about real life analogies and I used a current real world one to help with understanding why Dukat was seen by many fans as "not that bad". It is also relevant considering DS9's subject matter.

I thought that was what Trek was about? You've just talked about trolling and low quality posts, now you don't want to talk about real life political analogies? Unreal.

 

[cooleddie74]

The "Dukat did no wrong" meme on social media is (mostly) meant tongue in cheek. Most DS9 viewers and Trekkies know Gul Dukat was a villain and a killer. The meme took off in large part because of the humor created in defending such an obvious bad guy and supremely selfish character and which allowed lots of funny images to be shared and a hashtag to be created.

If I've ever known a fan who thinks without any irony whatsoever that Dukat wasn't a bad guy then I haven't been made aware. 99.9% of the conversation is about him being evil or at least bad enough that he wouldn't remotely count as a misunderstood character, the memes and "character assassination" of Dukat by writers. But nobody - at least no one I've seen - dies on the hill that Dukat is a woefully misjudged hero who redeemed himself until the Kosst Amojan arc.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Starfleet tends to thread the needle when it comes to "right and wrong"

Threats of genocide

ANAN: Unless you immediately start transportation of all personnel aboard your ship to the surface, the hostages will be killed. You have thirty minutes. I mean it, Captain.
KIRK: All that it means is that I won't be around for the destruction. You heard me give General Order Twenty Four. That means in two hours the Enterprise will destroy Eminiar Seven.

Espionage including border violation and theft of technology

MCCOY: I left orders that no one come in here.
CHAPEL: But he's alive, alive!
MCCOY: Well now that you know it, you might as well assist me. Hand me the physiostimulator.
CHAPEL: But he was dead. Their doctors certified he was dead.
MCCOY: Spock gave him a nerve pinch to simulate death.
CHAPEL: Then Mister Spock isn't a traitor, and you knew that and you didn't
MCCOY: I didn't know it until I beamed aboard the Romulan ship. Jim and Spock were operating under Federation orders.
(The green light goes out as Kirk wakes up properly.)
KIRK: Oh. (sitting up) My neck feels like it's been twisted off.
MCCOY: That's the Vulcan death grip for you.
CHAPEL: There's no such thing as a Vulcan death grip.
KIRK: Ah, but the Romulans don't know that. Sure fooled the doctors.
MCCOY: You took a big chance they didn't start an autopsy.
KIRK: As far as the rest of the crew's concerned, I'm still dead.
CHAPEL:: Why?
KIRK: That's what this whole masquerade was about. To keep the Enterprise and the Federation off the hook.
MCCOY: So that if anything went wrong, you would be the one to blame.
KIRK: Bones, I want you to prepare for surgery.
MCCOY: What for?

OTOH, the Feds get a little tetchy when they discover a Klingon disguised as a human in their midst

MCCOY: (scanning him) Heartbeat is all wrong. His body temperature is. Jim, this man is a Klingon.
BARIS: A Klingon?
KIRK: I wonder what Starfleet Command will say about that. What about the grain, Bones?
MCCOY: Oh, yes. It was poisoned.
BARIS: Poisoned?
MCCOY: Yes. It's been impregnated with a virus. The virus turns into an inert material in the bloodstream. The more the organism eats, the more inert matter is built up. So after two or three days, they reached a point where they couldn't take in enough nourishment to survive.
KIRK: They starved to death. In a storage compartment full of grain, they starved to death.
MCCOY: That is essentially it.
KIRK: Mister Darvin, are you going to talk?
DARVIN: I have nothing to say. (Kirk thrusts the tribbles into his face) All right, I poisoned the grain! Take them away.
KIRK: And the tribbles had nothing to do with it?
DARVIN: I don't know. I never saw one before in my life, and I hope I never see one of those fuzzy miserable things again.
BARIS: I'm certain that can be arranged, Darvin. Guards? If you'll excuse me, Captain.
(Baris leaves with the security guards and Darvin.)
KIRK: Captain Koloth. About that apology.
KOLOTH: Yes?
KIRK: You have six hours to get your ship out of Federation territory.

And of course

SISKO: At oh eight hundred hours, station time, the Romulan Empire formally declared war against the Dominion. They have already struck fifteen bases along the Cardassian border. So, this is a huge victory for the good guys. This may even be the turning point of the entire war. There's even a 'Welcome to the Fight' party tonight in the wardroom. So I lied, I cheated, I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But most damning thing of all, I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garak was right about one thing. A guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant, so I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it. Computer, erase that entire personal log.

...