Spoilers STAR TREK: SECTION 31 - Grading & Discussion

[Citiprime]

I read the PRODIGY one as being "a" mirror-type universe with a Terran Empire, not exactly the one seen in TOS & DS9. There were a ton of Federations in TNG's "Parallels". Why not have multiple variations of alt universes with Terran Empires? Would a newly reconstituted Terran Empire after the DS9 Terran Rebellion have a Voyager-A with slipstream technology less than ten years later?

Spoiler: Lower Decks

Well there is a Mirror Universe ISS Cerritos we see in the Lower Decks finale.

If I'm trying to reason out some headcanon for this, I could argue Smiley stole more than just the schematics for the Defiant, and maybe the Mirror Voyager was constructed to take part in their war against the Alliance. And by that point in the late 24th century, they built Voyager-A to replace it and dedicated its in the original Voyager's honor.

And as far as the slipstream drive, the Mirror Universe does seem to have made tech discoveries the Prime Universe hasn't yet (e.g., the Tantalus Field, the Godsend, etc.). So it's not impossible they could have discovered slipstream drive before we did.

 

[CaptainVarley]

The clunker bits for me:

1) Hunger Games determining the Emperor was ridiculous. And against everything the MU established.

2) How is San still alive?

3) Why don't out of phase individuals sink through the floor? (This is hardly unique to S31).

4) If the Godsend needed Georgiou's DNA, wasn't it less dangerous?

5) Why didn't San simply shhot the garbage skow with phasers?

6) How come all the Godsend did was close the portal? No chain reaction. Not really dangerous as advertised.

I agree the way Georgugue(sp) was chosen doesn't make a lot of sense with how the Terran Empire officers climbed in promotion. It makes more sense that an experienced person would rise to power. They really need to at least pretend to connect new stories to past storylines in that regard.

 

[fireproof78]

Are Deltans the new red shirts?

 

[Caretaker]

Finally saw it... and enjoyed it.

Of course, there are things I would have done differently. Some annoyances. But I see the potential for a series - one of redemption of the characters.

And I really want to see that next mission...

 

[CaptainVarley]

Lower decks and prodigy are silly comedies. SNW isnt as much because they are trying to emulate TOS but its still riding off of STD so it still hits thr dark depressing stories especially with Mbenga pretty much being a murderer.



I watched lower decks. After a few eps finally gabe up because it wasxso silly. The first two seasons of picard were totally dark and didnt resemble the hopeful future TNG gave us the third season while still dark finally steered is out of it at for a while anyway.

TNG wasn't a completely sunshine and rainbows show if we're being honest. Star Trek can do dark when it still overlays humans wanting to be better than their past selves, and wanting to overcome moral and ethical dilemmas. The writing can just be so lazy and missing the core of what ST is.

 

[Discovery McDiscoveryFace]

Setting aside my thoughts about the Movie Event.

I like the concept that there are continuing and repeated incursions into the 20th and 21st Centuries by temporal actors, which are repeatedly changing the events leading to the Eugenics Wars and hence the date. La'an's visit being only one of several and that the timeline always veers back to a particular path.

Now don't get me wrong, I know this is down to silo working, poor research and writers who aren't actually watching other shows in the the franchise, as opposed to any sort of intelligent design.

But as headcannon goes, it's a perfectly good way to address the constantly changing dates and origins of the various wars that have been a hefty part of the franchise.

In other news: the film was shite.

 

[TRON JA307020]

TNG wasn't a completely sunshine and rainbows show if we're being honest. Star Trek can do dark when it still overlays humans wanting to be better than their past selves, and wanting to overcome moral and ethical dilemmas. The writing can just be so lazy and missing the core of what ST is.

Not always but the moral or immoral conflicts didnt come from starfleet officers most of the time. The aliens they encounter usually filled that role and how the main characters dealt with it. Even worfs ideas seemed much more in line with utopia trek than what we got in std and early picard.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not always but the moral or immoral conflicts didnt come from starfleet officers most of the time. The aliens they encounter usually filled that roll and how the main characters dealt with it. Even worfs ideas seemed much more in line with utopia trek than what we got in std and early picard.

Both are about regaining those ideas.

 

[Caretaker]

Apparently whoever wrote that just entered the stardate given into the first webpage google result for stardate calculator and got 2324 returned (I tried it and I got April 17, 2324). To my knowledge the Earth year is never given in the movie, and there are no official "stardate calculators" so this dating is entirely based off of entering the stardate into a fan stardate calculator, which the Memory Alpha entry writer must have used.

It looks they are just back calculating from "The Neutral Zone" (2364). 41986.0 - 1292.4 = 40675.6. Divide that by 1000 (1000 stardate units per year) = 40.67 years. 2364-40 = 2324. That sounds about right to give Garrett time to make Captain and have a good run as C.O. of the Enterprise.

 

[James Cole]

Spoiler: Lower Decks

Well there is a Mirror Universe ISS Cerritos we see in the Lower Decks finale.

If I'm trying to reason out some headcanon for this, I could argue Smiley stole more than just the schematics for the Defiant, and maybe the Mirror Voyager was constructed to take part in their war against the Alliance. And by that point in the late 24th century, they built Voyager-A to replace it and dedicated its in the original Voyager's honor.

And as far as the slipstream drive, the Mirror Universe does seem to have made tech discoveries the Prime Universe hasn't yet (e.g., the Tantalus Field, the Godsend, etc.). So it's not impossible they could have discovered slipstream drive before we did.

Ok, the LD series finale actually kinda helps here. There's a near-infinite number of parallel universes, likely impossible to ever quantify. Let's assume the anomaly in the episode allows us to statistically sample near adjacent parallel universes to the Star Trek prime universe. The Cerritos transforms around eight times, and earlier in the season encounters at least two alternate Cerritos. So let's just run with a sample size of ten. 1 in 10 near adjacent alternate realities encountered during that LD arc with their own Cerritos could have a Terran Empire Starfleet instead of a Federation Starfleet.

PRODIGY's "Cracked Mirror" has a 1 in 5 chance that an alternate reality anomaly will send someone to a Terran Empire variant, not a Federation variant of the Voyager-A.

TNG's "Parallels" shows tens of thousands of alternate Enterprise-D's, but never establishes if any are Terran variants.

What makes "the" mirror universe special is that it is the most easily accessible alt universe from the Prime universe. So it can be reasonably assumed that the Mirror universe established in "Mirror, Mirror" is also the one from DS9 and ENT. But that doesn't mean no other alternate universes could have some version of the Terran Empire instead of some slight variation of the Federation.

Just as DISCOVERY and SNW take place in a timeline where the Eugenics Wars occurred decades later than in TOS and its direct offshoots, the one stop over "Mirror universe" Georgiu came from would have also been effected by changes in the Prime timeline, so it too would be different from the TOS Mirror universe, but still conjoined.

The Kelvin timeline universe likely also has its own conjoined mirror universe, which would again be different thanks to Kelvin timeline's past being different before 2233 thanks to time travel.

 

[Paul755]

I read the PRODIGY one as being "a" mirror-type universe with a Terran Empire, not exactly the one seen in TOS & DS9. There were a ton of Federations in TNG's "Parallels". Why not have multiple variations of alt universes with Terran Empires? Would a newly reconstituted Terran Empire after the DS9 Terran Rebellion have a Voyager-A with slipstream technology less than ten years later?

This is pretty much how I see it. At the very least we have three Terran Empire mirrorverses. The one from TOS-ENT, the one from Prodigy and Lower Decks and the one from Discovery.

 

[Danja]

Another thing niggling away at me: When Georgiou and Alok discover (well, get a hunch) that there's a mole, why the hell do they get together all of the suspects and tell them?!? In what world does that make sense for a spy to do? There could have been a lot of tension bordering on paranoia as we watch the story from the POV of the two of them, as they look at the remaining squad members for signs of betrayal. But instead we get cheap drama and two different lame fakeouts.

This was a ten-episode series distilled into a ninety-minute movie. They didn't have the luxury of dragging things out.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This was a ten-episode series distilled into a ninety-minute movie. They didn't have the luxury of dragging things out.

Curious how much they used.

 

[Aragorn]

The story needed two hours to tell but they didn't have enough story for the 90 minutes they had.

 

[cooleddie74]

Clearly they left out a lot of the good stuff.

 

[TRON JA307020]

This kind of remind me of the bad tv movies like the Star Wars Ewok movies of the 1980s. Badly written and rushed and no real characterization. This did not look like a movie quality production at all. For the the record I would probably pick the Ewok movies to watch as bad as they were over the section 31 poop fest.

 

[cooleddie74]

I rarely say this but Pubert's right. The Ewok TV-movies were better than this.

 

[Fateor]

Also, those costumes! The best costumes in Streaming Trek to date. I could have been satisfied with this on the wardrobe alone.

The costumes were forgettably generic, to the point they could have been from functionally any "dark and gritty" Sci-Fi show.

I watched lower decks. After a few eps finally gabe up because it wasxso silly. The first two seasons of picard were totally dark and didnt resemble the hopeful future TNG gave us the third season while still dark finally steered is out of it at for a while anyway.

Maybe you should watch the entire first season then, because the silliness drops off after the first three episodes.

I'd actually argue that only Discovery's first two seasons were particularly dark. While not upbeat, it developed a cloying, Hallmark Channel sort of vibe by the end.

Other than Book's planet being destroyed, I can't think of a single bad thing that happened to anybody in the final two seasons. Only the "bad guys" got to die.

Season 3 involved everything good in the galaxy being destroyed by a psychic baby scream and the Discovery crew picking up the pieces because they were the only ones with the now somehow required for warp travel magic go-rocks.

Season 4 involved a general theme of infighting and abandonment stemming from the events of Season 3.

Season 5 involved a single person deciding that the Federation was so broken it couldn't be trusted with the ability to do something that the Federation had already been able to do for hundreds of years and ended with a very Section 31 type secret group being shown to still be using temporal technology to manipulate events.

 

[Tuskin38]

and ended with a very Section 31 type secret group being shown to still be using temporal technology to manipulate events.

... no it didn't?

Just as DISCOVERY and SNW take place in a timeline where the Eugenics Wars occurred decades later than in TOS and its direct offshoots

Discovery and SNW is still the same timeline as the rest of the franchise. They proved this with the Lower Decks crossover episode, and with Discovery using footage directly from TNG as historical footage in the 32nd Century.

 

[trekfan_1]

Just finished watching it, and before diving into specifics, I’ll summarize by saying that the very reason Star Trek resonated with me in the first place was because it stood apart as a distinct form of science fiction—it had a unique profile that set it apart from typical sci-fi fare. Unfortunately, this movie felt more like “standard sci-fi” to me.

That said, I had numerous issues with it, even as a standalone story. None of the characters, not even Rachel Garrett, felt authentic or fully realized. It felt like everyone was acting as caricatures in a holodeck simulation rather than real people. On top of that, I had serious problems with the story at its core. The notion of a mass murderer being portrayed as a hero, without any real consequences, didn’t sit well with me. I’m open to the idea of redemption, but (1) it didn’t feel earned, and (2) I couldn’t believe the transformation at all. Georgiou, after all the death and destruction she caused, suddenly deciding to “fix things” for the good guys just didn’t feel plausible from her perspective. I didn't buy it

Finally, the movie failed to entertain me. And to be clear, I’m not against cheesy or mindless fun—I enjoyed Big Trouble in Little China for example. . But this movie was not like that. And if it's not fun than it needs to have depth. This had none or at least not any depth that felt genuine.

Star Trek can be different. DS9 is an example of being different but it was made so good (IMo) that it transcends the need of relying on the familiar Trek formula.

This was not that. Not even close.