Spoilers STAR TREK: SECTION 31 - Grading & Discussion

[fireproof78]

If Star Trek is turned into a dark and ominous series of movies and films for the ‘next generation’, then all of the ‘old skool’ Star Trek fans who liked *real* Star Trek in the original format would look like bad people for having this as their favorite show. Positive role models and aspirations of the future have been replaced with dictators, and mirror versions of what the future was originally intended to be; including Georgiou, who was originally intended to be the Captain of a Starship, the Shenzhou.

Someone has twisted Star Trek into a dark
Mirror of what it should be, I don’t actually think that it was Kurtzman… he’s quiet like he is no longer in command of the franchise and does not have any say in what happens next, letting anyone make any Trek show or movie that they want… other than me and Terry Matalas!

If an international audience unfamiliar with Star Trek watched the new Star Trek which is currently being produced without seeing what Star Trek once was and should be, then it looks like Star Trek fans are bad people, being fans of a ‘dark’ and ominous show rather than one which is preaching positivity and inclusivity for our future ?

Repeat to yourself, "it's just a TV show. I should really relax."

You have one film with a former dictator.

Star Trek is fine.

 

[Weyoun 251]

Ended up giving it a 7 - concept was solid, liked the characters (Quasi was a really fun character, Alok had great chemistry with Georgiou).

Guessed than the villain was San during the opening fight (on the basis of "why otherwise would they introduce his character?")

Would like to know why Control is back - in a different guise than before but feels like it could do with an explanation


I'm about 35 minutes in right now (watching it bits before I can sit down at lunch and finish it), and so far, its fine. Nothing amazing. Nothing that is keeping me from continuing. But sometimes its just downright annoying. Very by the numbers. Very solidly middle 5 as I go along. We'll see if that holds in the next hour.

Its obvious that this is a lot of plot and character built into 95 minutes. They should have cut back the cast a little bit to help actually develop some characters. Or simplified the plot. Or gotten rid of the mirror universe angle (I'm gathering that pays off though.) Just too much in too little time.

I don't have a problem saying this is in the Star Trek universe, because its a big universe. People complain all the time that there is not enough different in Star Trek (or they complain that there's too much different.) From that perspective, why can't it be Star Trek?

It had Honour Among Thieves/Prodigal Daughter vibes for me - stories set within the Trek universe but focussing on non-Starfleet goings on and telling very "non-Trek" stories.

 

[Uhura's Song]

The clunker bits for me:

1) Hunger Games determining the Emperor was ridiculous. And against everything the MU established.

2) How is San still alive?

3) Why don't out of phase individuals sink through the floor? (This is hardly unique to S31).

4) If the Godsend needed Georgiou's DNA, wasn't it less dangerous?

5) Why didn't San simply shhot the garbage skow with phasers?

6) How come all the Godsend did was close the portal? No chain reaction. Not really dangerous as advertised.

 

[TRON JA307020]

So we no longer have Trek to watch?


Is this Abrams deleting my DVDs of TOS again?

They are destroying treks continuing legacy by constantly releasing garbage and calling it part of continuity with the original series. A stupid comedy cartoon that is similar to futurama is supposed to be canon? STD and mow this. Star Trek used to be an inspiring view of the future of humanity. TOS and even more TNG were the best showing it. Now its a dark depressing place. No thanks.

 

[The Wormhole]

the Terran empire no longer exists in the 24th century

Didn't watch Prodigy S2 I take it?

 

[Sakonna]

Well, I'll happily be in the minority here - I had a great time with this!

I was expecting something like Disco's final season premiere, by which I mean programming that aspired to be a big action movie, but lacked the resources to realize that ambition.

But this was stunning. This felt like a theatrical feature film. I could not believe how expensive this felt.

Michelle Yeoh has never been better in the role. You could tell how much she relished going back to Georgiou, and the energy of that was fun to ride along with.

It had a grubby B-movie vibe, but I love a grubby B-movie. One of my favorite features of Trek has always been its ability to cycle through genres. I hadn't ever considered this as a genre they could do, but now that I've seen it, I feel like I should have been clamoring for this for a while.

Honestly, my chief complaint was the quick deaths of Melle and Zeph. I found those the two most intriguing performances among the supporting cast, so I would have liked more time with them.

I also didn't love that they were taking orders from Control again. Who the hell thought that was worth another try?

There were definitely other plot holes, but I thought they rushed us past them in the right way, with that overstuffed action movie pace. I noticed them but they didn't actually bother me.

I get why it was not for so many, but I had a blast. Super dark, but kept the essential Trek spirit. Gorgeously produced and brilliantly cast. I might go watch it again right now.

And why does the Deltan always die? TMP, PIC, and now this.

Oh damn, I didn't notice that, but you're right. The new redshirt.

3) Why don't out of phase individuals sink through the floor? (This is hardly unique to S31).

Since "The Next Phase" back in 1992, my fanwank has been that the effects of gravity plating work on people and objects out of phase as well as in phase.

 

[JD]

Did she mention it more than once? I thought she only mentioned it near the end when in the cargo hold

Like someone else, she or someone else mentioned it the first time they introduced her, and then I think she said something when they were going after Seph, after they first got on the garbage scow, and then at the end.

 

[Fateor]

They are destroying treks continuing legacy by constantly releasing garbage and calling it part of continuity with the original series. A stupid comedy cartoon that is similar to futurama is supposed to be canon? STD and mow this. Star Trek used to be an inspiring view of the future of humanity. TOS and even more TNG were the best showing it. Now its a dark depressing place. No thanks.

Lower Decks was nothing like Futurama.

Really, it's only Discovery and now this that take the darker turn.

Heck, Picard was all about the Federation overcoming darkness and becoming optimistic hope seekers again.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They are destroying treks continuing legacy by constantly releasing garbage and calling it part of continuity with the original series. A stupid comedy cartoon that is similar to futurama is supposed to be canon? STD and mow this. Star Trek used to be an inspiring view of the future of humanity. TOS and even more TNG were the best showing it. Now its a dark depressing place. No thanks.

Dark and depressing???? LD, PRO??? SNW??? Maybe in some alternate reality.

 

[Citiprime]

Didn't watch Prodigy S2 I take it?

That doesn't prove that the Terran Empire should exist at this point in the 24th century.

Prodigy S2 occurs in the 25th century late 24th century.

DS9 establishes the rebels retake DS9 after "our" Bashir inspires Smiley's (Mirror O'Brien) and Mirror Sisko's insurrection. And they've taken the first steps to establishing a movement that could have reconstituted a human government towards the latter DS9 episodes on the Mirror Universe

But at this point in the 24th century (2324), it seems unlikely the Terran Empire should still exist, since the Intendant (Mirror Kira) implies that Kirk's intervention in "Mirror, Mirror" (2267 in the Prime Timeline) caused Mirror Spock to move against the Terran Empire and propose reforms that left it vulnerable to an alliance between the Klingons and Cardassians. Mirror O'Brien thinks the idea of humans being free and capable of being a doctor or engineer is a "fairy tale" at first, implying he's been a slave all of his life. If Mirror O'Brien was born around the same time as Prime O'Brien (2328), that would put the Mirror counterpart's birth very close to a similar time as when "Section 31" happened in the Prime Timeline.

 

[Paul755]

Gave this a 3 and I think that is being generous. This was very not good.

It felt exactly like a 10 episode series squished into 90 minutes.

 

[Sakonna]

Also, those costumes! The best costumes in Streaming Trek to date. I could have been satisfied with this on the wardrobe alone.

 

[Nerys Myk]

That doesn't prove that the Terran Empire should exist at this point in the 24th century.

Prodigy S2 occurs in the 25th century.

DS9 establishes the rebels retake DS9 after "our" Bashir inspires Smiley's (Mirror O'Brien) and Mirror Sisko's insurrection. And they've taken the first steps to establishing a movement that could have reconstituted a human government towards the latter DS9 episodes on the Mirror Universe

But at this point in the 24th century, it seems unlikely the Terran Empire should still exist, since the Intendant (Mirror Kira) implies that Kirk's intervention in "Mirror, Mirror" (2267 in the Prime Timeline) caused Mirror Spock to move against the Terran Empire and propose reforms.

And Napoleon fought for the French Republic.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Dark and depressing???? LD, PRO??? SNW??? Maybe in some alternate reality.

Lower decks and prodigy are silly comedies. SNW isnt as much because they are trying to emulate TOS but its still riding off of STD so it still hits thr dark depressing stories especially with Mbenga pretty much being a murderer.

Lower Decks was nothing like Futurama.

Really, it's only Discovery and now this that take the darker turn.

Heck, Picard was all about the Federation overcoming darkness and becoming optimistic hope seekers again.

I watched lower decks. After a few eps finally gabe up because it wasxso silly. The first two seasons of picard were totally dark and didnt resemble the hopeful future TNG gave us the third season while still dark finally steered is out of it at for a while anyway.

 

[The Wormhole]

That doesn't prove that the Terran Empire should exist at this point in the 24th century.

I assumed Prodigy's depiction of the Terran Empire was the same we saw in IDW's comics, where the Terran Empire continue to exist, it was just significantly smaller. The DS9 characters believe it was defeated due to propaganda from the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance. Indeed, Prodigy used the Terran Empire logo and uniforms from those comics.

Prodigy S2 occurs in the 25th century.

NO. Prodigy S2 takes place during 2383 and early 2384. I mean the finale shows the Synth attack on Mars, which Picard S1 established was fifteen years earlier, and that season was set in 2399, which is still 24th century. Where the hell did you get the idea Prodigy takes place in the 25th century?

 

[Citiprime]

NO. Prodigy S2 takes place during 2383 and early 2384. I mean the finale shows the Synth attack on Mars, which Picard S1 established was fifteen years earlier, and that season was set in 2399, which is still 24th century. Where the hell did you get the idea Prodigy takes place in the 25th century?

Ahh, I forgot about that connection to the Picard season 1. My apologies, you're right, it is still the 24th century.

But "Prodigy" occurs late in the 24th century. If it was the same Mirror Universe as DS9 depicted it and not another universe with a Terran Empire, it should imply that the rebels we saw in DS9 created a new Terran Empire (which I don't if that fits with the mindset of the characters we saw in DS9). But, still, that doesn't necessarily prove the Terran Empire should exist in a counterpart 2324.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Lower decks and prodigy are silly comedies. SNW isnt as much because they are trying to emulate TOS but its still riding off of STD so it still hits thr dark depressing stories especially with Mbenga pretty much being a murderer.

PRO isn't a comedy or all that silly.

TOS and TNG did dark stories too. But the majority of SNW aren't. They tend to end on bright notes.

Now, did Data kill Kivas? Sisko seems willing to live with his dark deeds. Why did Kirk let the war on Neral continue? Picard sure had a rough go under those four (?) lights. Pretty sad how Kirk had to see Mirimanee, Edith and Rayna die.

 

[cooleddie74]

TOS did some dark episodes, too. "Balance of Terror." "The Conscience of the King." "City on the Edge of Forever," to name just three and just from Season 1. Even "Miri" is a downright somber tale of perpetual adolescents on a world whose civilization was all but destroyed 300 years before by scientists experimenting with bacteriological agents and attempting to prolong the lifespans of the planet's people.

Trek can get damn morose and fast when it wants.

 

[fireproof78]

prodigy are silly comedies.

No, it's not. It is deeply serious and looks at trauma, just through a kid's lens. Calling it a comedy ignores is basis.

SNW isnt as much because they are trying to emulate TOS but its still riding off of STD so it still hits thr dark depressing stories especially with Mbenga pretty much being a murderer.

Pretty much? So, if he's threatened he shouldn't respond? Worf is pretty much a murderer too, so is Dax.

The first two seasons of picard were totally dark and didnt resemble the hopeful future TNG gave us the third season while still dark finally steered is out of it at for a while anyway.

Star Trek has always been dark, but that dark shift away from an optimistic future started with TNG. TNG Season 3 introduced ideas of witch hunts amongst the admiralty, while placing a villian who would damage the lead character for forever. TNG, for all its other faults, set the darker tone, and has been that way for a while, going in to Deep Space Nine, and several other wars that TNG invented.

Dark tone? Blame TOS and TNG. That's where the seeds were planted.

 

[The Wormhole]

One of TNG's most popular episodes takes place in an alternate timeline where the Federation is fighting a war and it's losing.