Data defeating Lore in his mind. Kind of stupid and cheesy

[The Emissary]

I like what the other posters said about it not being a literal discussion in a white room. That maybe it is more akin to Jarvis vs. Ultron but they didn't want to show a battle of codes and flashing light. So, we as viewers, see this battle of synthetic codes in the form of Data and Lore (as we know them) dueling.

 

[Qonfounding Ghooool]

How else do you depict two personalities at war in the same body? It looked cheap as shit compared to how the X-Men movies did mind war stuff, but I thought it was fine. Plus, Spot appeared so it's automatically a win.

It was a little corny, but not really out of character given Data's arc. In any case, the only person by now who could probably intercept and remove Lore's algorithm would be Geordi. There's clearly a runtime monitor installed that lets everyone know Lore's inside Data's head, but how long would it take for Geordi to develop a system to weed Lore out? A shame there wasn't more time to explore the partitions for the personalities ("operating systems", perhaps, if not "user interface") - not only would we see Lal again, but they could also do a spinoff show - a comedy - called "Data's Head"... Like this:

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...only in higher definition.

 

[Qonfounding Ghooool]

Liked it just fine. But if you don't, fine and dandy. There are people who didn't like "The Visitor", after all.

The initial viewing is top-tier, or seemingly so. But I don't think it holds up well to repeated viewings. Especially the parts where the guest star of the week, the awed groupie (but thankfully not stalker) who just shows up out of nowhere, doesn't call the Federation Psychiatric Ward over what would be too easy to perceive as schizophrenic and suicidal ideations being exhibited by Jake and she just sits there not humoring him but believing him. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall (Melanie?) seeing any apparition of Sisko, she's just listening to Jake (and even at one point offering to call the doctor because he's all of a sudden breathing heavy due to what would be seen from her POV as a complete stranger as his anxiety/stress/psychosis-induced imaginings! The audience is told outright Jake's POV and Melanie could be a popsicle stick with bits of dried mint ice cream and bugs on it for all anyone could care, but I digress.) But other episodes deemed top-tier actually hold up upon rewatches. Either perfectly or nearly so.

But it's the 24th century and there's no such thing as suicidal ideation or "seeing or hearing things", is there. As Captain Kirk might say, "Right..." as Troi might say, "That's not true or else we wouldn't need counselors on starships, Flagship or otherwise."

 

[Moviefan2k4]

I really loved that scene. Brent Spiner playing both sides, almost as if no time had passed...he must truly have enjoyed that like nothing else. Because no matter how talented an actor you are, playing a character devoid of emotions is bound to get old very quickly. That's probably why they added Lore very early in Season 1, followed by Noonien in Season 4, B-4 in Nemesis, and then all the other family variations after that. The fact that Lore would ultimately be defeated by literally merging with Data was actually pretty poetic, like two split personalities reforming into a proper whole.

 

[Tinker Garak Soldier Spy]

I enjoyed the scene, and it didn't seem out of place for Star Trek to me. The part I found funny was the graphical representation everyone else was watching seemed to be programmed for dramatic tension rather than showing them what actually was happening. It was as if the computer was fucking with them.

 

[MikeReed013]

Thinking back to Measure of a Man, It could be argued this strategy and its ultimate effect was telegraphed all the way back in TNG S2. The difference here being that Data has a well constructed neural net to be copied into that is capable of preserving the nuance of his experiences versus Maddox's early tin-foil and bailing wire version of a positronic brain.

 

[CoveTom]

Eh. I thought bringing Data back at all was kind of cheesy, since he had already died twice. However, since the entire point of season 3 was to get the gang back together and give them one final farewell mission, it pretty much had to be done. So I can excuse it. Once you get past that, I thought the way they brought Data and Lore back made sense and the "battle" between them was pretty well done. I don't really have a problem with it.

 

[Pumpkin Bread]

Picard called death the ultimate boundary. However, death in Star Trek is about pretty porous barrier, either way.

 

[AntonyF]

Liked it just fine. But if you don't, fine and dandy. There are people who didn't like "The Visitor", after all.

The Visitor isn't my favourite episode. But it's a bit like comparing a shit stain up a wall and the Mona Lisa, in terms of artistic levels, when comparing Picard to DS9.

In terms of the scene itself, I found it obvious more than anything - it was clear what was coming.

 

[Uhura's Song]

The Visitor isn't my favourite episode. But it's a bit like comparing a shit stain up a wall and the Mona Lisa, in terms of artistic levels, when comparing Picard to DS9.

In terms of the scene itself, I found it obvious more than anything - it was clear what was coming.

S3 was damn good, IMHO. RT would agree with me. Better than S7 of DS9 in many ways. Hard to compare 26 to 10, but I was not a big fan of the Dukat/Winn mustache twirl at the end. Though the other aspects were well done.

 

[Riley]

Long before PIC decided to use Lore to restore Data, I had the same idea. My premise was, however, more poignant. Geordi realizes the only way Data can live again is in the next best body: Lore's. However, the only way it will work is for Lore to cooperate and allow Data's positronic matrix to overwrite his.

Lore is reactivated and we learn that his consciousness continued on despite deactivation disassembly. He was in a limbo of sorts, at least that's what he claims. He also claims that he's changed and that as an act of redemption, he will allow his brother to claim his body. Picard and Geordi are skeptical, but with time running out for Data while trapped in B4, they agree. We then get a scene of Data and Lore meeting inside of Lore's positronic brain. Data is shocked to discover that Lore has indeed changed. He thanks his brother, who then vanishes, leaving only his memories. Of course, Data also now has access to not only emotions through Lore's body, but also some measure of emotional control. That's a far more character-driven and fitting end for Lore than the evil schtick all over again.

 

[DonIago]

If the premise is going to be that Lore's changed, I think that needs to be shown, not told.