Spoilers The Controversial Star Wars Opinion Thread

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I'm not into a property or concept milked dry from endless spin-offs watering down said concept.

Then I guess current Star Trek & Star Wars must bore you to tears.

You can disagree, but I doubt anyone would argue the piles of SW content produced in this century is great or the best of the concept.

Depends on whom you ask, some like the Disney-era shows.
Depends on which series and which episodes.
I really liked alot of the "Non-'SkyWalker Saga'" content.

Irrelevant. Star Was exists for the reasons you mock and resent.

And here I thought Star Wars exists to tell stories set in it's universe first.
Not necessarilly follow the religious / spiritual under tones that you love.

Then why are you interested in Star Wars as a concept at all?

The great old fashion "Action Adventure" Sci-Fi journey.

The Force--the religious / spiritual characters and influence defined the concept. Without it, and it does not exist, leaving generic sci-fi crap it was never intended to be, so again, why are you interested in Star Wars?

Because it's a fun universe to explore. Just because it might've been founded on one concept, doesn't mean it has to stay 100% revolved around said concept.
There are plenty of worlds of story telling that don't revolve around that.

I loved "Rogue 1: A SW Story" & "Solo: A SW Story"
I love alot of the TV shows.

Just because you seem to be fixated around the "Spirtitual Core" of Star Wars, doesn't mean other fans are.
Many of us care about other things within Star Wars and aren't particularly attached to that aspect of it.

Different strokes for different fokes.
Why does it feel like you're gate keeping the Star Wars franchise?

Bored beyond belief with any character with a helmet and jet-pack beyond the single purpose of the mysterious bounty hunter archetype from TESB & ROTJ.

That's your take, I don't agree with that, so do many others who like "The Mandalorian" and all it's spin-off content.

Again, you're conflating the films--the vehicle Lucas used to tell his story--with ancillary market material, only produced to generate coins, not support or influence the real story in the films.

So apparently only the "SkyWalker Saga" is the REAL Story, and everything else is ancillary.

No. Each is its own "animal", designed to live and breathe by its own unique standards that are as "oil and water" as one can imagine, unlike superhero content, where most--at the end of the day--all function from / driven by similar creative launchpads, character motivations and a basic, familiar universe that allow for some successful crossovers (though most rarely made sense).

We'll have to agree to disagree on the crossovers not making sense. Doesn't matter if it's Super Hero content or other types.

Funny how Star Trek and Star Wars at their creative best, never needed fanwank crossovers to create great stories.

Funny how it seems like you're "Gate Keeping" the franchises into a defined box, and us "Non-Fans" aren't allowed to play in said box because apparently you're the "Gate Keeper" as to what is "True Star Wars".

 

[fireproof78]

Why does it feel like you're gate keeping the Star Wars franchise?

I mean, the argument is to remove the spiritual in favor of more scientific in a franchise established as a space fantasy story. So, um, it seems to remove the bare essence of what was set force by Lucas initially.

So apparently only the "SkyWalker Saga" is the REAL Story, and everything else is ancillary.

I mean, yes. The rest is ancillary stories to the main story. Doesn't make them lesser; just not the main thrust of the world. These stories are not just cut and paste of different elements. Like sports, they have particular rules to establish that universe and foundational ideas to keep that up. While the spiritual may be less interesting, but no less foundational.

Just because you seem to be fixated around the "Spirtitual Core" of Star Wars, doesn't mean other fans are.
Many of us care about other things within Star Wars and aren't particularly attached to that aspect of it.

I mean, yes of course, but how much do you remove the core and keep it as Star Wars?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I mean, the argument is to remove the spiritual in favor of more scientific in a franchise established as a space fantasy story. So, um, it seems to remove the bare essence of what was set force by Lucas initially.

And Lucas himself went down that road by introducing Midi-Chlorians and by having 'The Sith' use more Science to de-mystify "The Force".
He himself, the originator/creator, wanted to bring more science to his franchise.
If 'The Sith' were not hell bent on authoritarian domination & out-right eradication of 'The Jedi', I think there would be progress in understanding "The Force" through a scientific lens.
'The Jedi' refuse to view it through science and treat 'The Force' as Quasi Religious belief system.

I mean, yes. The rest is ancillary stories to the main story. Doesn't make them lesser; just not the main thrust of the world. These stories are not just cut and paste of different elements. Like sports, they have particular rules to establish that universe and foundational ideas to keep that up. While the spiritual may be less interesting, but no less foundational.

As the main title implies, I thought it involved "Wars" spread amongst "The Stars".
as long as you have groups fighting amongst "The Stars", I don't see why it would be considered violating the "Foundational Rules".
We can still include "The Force", Light Sabers, all the aliens, traveling around the greater Star Wars Galaxy.

I mean, yes of course, but how much do you remove the core and keep it as Star Wars?

Then why was there a need to eliminate both "The Jedi" & "The Sith" at the end of Episode 9?
Disney wanted to wipe the slate clean and let Rey take over the franchise and define it in the future.
So where would that go?
Will she be retreading the past with more Jedi vs Sith?
Will there be a genuinely new type of threat that isn't related to anything of the past?

 

[Campe]

Star Wars can and has been a lot of other things than the core Skywalker story. I wonder the farther you get away from it though if it will be as beloved as it has been. It’s already become less popular. Having a broad appeal is what was so wonderful about the OT. The PT and the ST (as much as I enjoyed them both) continued to get further away from that core and less enjoyable for the masses. At the end of the day, I guess the question is: Do you focus on the core fan group? Or do you go after the masses? Honestly, the later is the more preferable, and I’m not sure you do that by bringing in large amounts of lore and focusing on the scientific aspect of the GFFA.

 

[fireproof78]

'The Jedi' refuse to view it through science and treat 'The Force' as Quasi Religious belief system.

No in the former. Yes, they treat it as a quasi religious system, but they also do the whole midichlorian thing. So they are not unscientific.

Not sure why more science of the Force is needed here.

We can still include "The Force", Light Sabers, all the aliens, traveling around the greater Star Wars Galaxy.

I believe that fell under "mystical mumbo jumbo" that was to be excluded.

Then why was there a need to eliminate both "The Jedi" & "The Sith" at the end of Episode 9?

Last I checked the Jedi still existed so I'm afraid you and I watched different Episode 9s.

Star Wars can and has been a lot of other things than the core Skywalker story. I wonder the farther you get away from it though if it will be as beloved as it has been. It’s already become less popular. Having a broad appeal is what was so wonderful about the OT. The PT and the ST (as much as I enjoyed them both) continued to get further away from that core and less enjoyable for the masses. At the end of the day, I guess the question is: Do you focus on the core fan group? Or do you go after the masses? Honestly, the later is the more preferable, and I’m not sure you do that by bringing in large amounts of lore and focusing on the scientific aspect of the GFFA.

Agreed. I read an interesting quote that basically said that the ideas of fairy stories is to excite the imagination, to bring wonder and amazement in to our lives and challenge our imaginations, not to answer every single question of the story.

I think if Star Wars is to continue that idea appealing to the masses is the way to go. Because, the stories of Star Wars captured the public imagination at a huge level.

 

[Ithekro]

Consider that there is a film in the works about the origin of the Jedi some 25,000 years in the past, and a Rey film set something like 15 years after the Rise of Skywalker that is supposed to depict how Rey will be going about building a New Jedi Order, I don't think we are getting away from the Jedi in Star Wars any time soon.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

No in the former. Yes, they treat it as a quasi religious system, but they also do the whole midichlorian thing. So they are not unscientific.

Not sure why more science of the Force is needed here.

I'm not sure why having more science is considered a bad thing.

I believe that fell under "mystical mumbo jumbo" that was to be excluded.

If you De-Mystify "The Force", "Light Sabers", Aliens, going @ FTL. That wouldn't count as "Mystical Mumbo Jumbo".
Since we would understand how it works.

"The Force" was one-step closer to being understood when Midi-chlorians were introduced.
Then we can dive deeper into understanding how Force Users activate & use said "Force Powers".

Light Saber Construction is largely known thanks to understanding how the Khyber Crystal works and how others have made use of Khyber Crystals.

Aliens be aliens, we just learn more about them on a species by species basis.

Star Wars HyperDrive is a common FTL drive in their world that everybody knows of & uses.

Last I checked the Jedi still existed so I'm afraid you and I watched different Episode 9s.

Rey was the last vestige of deep Jedi knowledge, she hasn't built a "New Jedi Order" yet.
So if you consider 1 person, the sole remaining knowledge of "The Jedi" to still exist in the Star Wars Galaxy, then I guess it works.

---

Consider that there is a film in the works about the origin of the Jedi some 25,000 years in the past, and a Rey film set something like 15 years after the Rise of Skywalker that is supposed to depict how Rey will be going about building a New Jedi Order, I don't think we are getting away from the Jedi in Star Wars any time soon.

Here are the UpComing Star Wars films:

We're also getting a new movie about "The Mandalorian & Grogu". That's already in Post-Production & set to be released on May 22, 2026.
There's also a "New Republic" movie in the works as well.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm not sure why having more science is considered a bad thing.

Not bad. Just not the point of a fantasy tale.

knowledge of "The Jedi" to still exist in the Star Wars Galaxy, then I guess it works.

Yes, I do.

when Midi-chlorians were introduced.
Then we can dive deeper into understanding how Force Users activate & use said "Force Powers".

And then we can debate the energy capacity of Kryptonian skin cells.

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[Kamen Rider Blade]

And then we can debate the energy capacity of Kryptonian skin cells.

Remember, you're on a dedicated Trek forum, so you're "One of Us" fellow nerds.

Whether you like it or not.

So "we're of like minds", and you are amongst your fellow nerds here.

 

[fireproof78]

Remember, you're on a dedicated Trek forum, so you're "One of Us" fellow nerds.

Whether you like it or not.

So "we're of like minds", and you are amongst your fellow nerds here.

So...measuring the Force proves we're nerds?



Because I thought it was a given. But, I guess we all need a non sequitur from time to time.

 

[Set Harth]

Then why was there a need to eliminate both "The Jedi" & "The Sith" at the end of Episode 9?

There wasn't. ( In fact, that sounds more like Kylo's Ep. VIII philosophy. ) Different characters wanted different things. Palpatine wanted to eliminate the Jedi; Rey wanted to eliminate the Sith. With Rey still around at the end the Jedi were not eliminated.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What is this "Sith science" that is spoken of?

 

[fireproof78]

What is this "Sith science" that is spoken of?

Qui-gon: It's Heroin.

 

[Ithekro]

Qui-gon: It's Heroin.

"I get that reference"

Palpatine seemed to be all in a various levels of witchcraft, cloning, mechanisms, anything to achieve his goals. Be they life extension, resurrection, Lightsaber proof armor, covering his tracks, and building planet killing space stations. He left no opportunity behind if the thought he could gain from it.

 

[fireproof78]

"I get that reference"

Palpatine seemed to be all in a various levels of witchcraft, cloning, mechanisms, anything to achieve his goals. Be they life extension, resurrection, Lightsaber proof armor, covering his tracks, and building planet killing space stations. He left no opportunity behind if the thought he could gain from it.

His power was the only thing that mattered. So, any means he could to get access to it.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I used to like the idea of crossovers but after much thinking about it no I would definitely not be cool with a cross over of Star Trek and Star Wars. Let them be their own thing. I do think it is wanky.


But to clarify if it was something really quick like say some random anomaly that has say our Federation ship of the week in space and something random like a Star Destroyer flies past and is gone again, I wouldn't mind that so much.

 

[Sketcher]

Feel like a multiverse 'What If' type story is more probable than a Trek crossover at this point. Kind of like those comics from the early 00s.

- Vader lives post ROTJ
- Luke falls to the dark side.
- Greedo shoots first and actually hits Han Solo
- Anakin never falls to the dark side and slays Sidious in ROTS.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Feel like a multiverse 'What If' type story is more probable than a Trek crossover at this point. Kind of like those comics from the early 00s.

- Vader lives post ROTJ
- Luke falls to the dark side.
- Greedo shoots first and actually hits Han Solo
- Anakin never falls to the dark side and slays Sidious in ROTS.

What if it was like I had suggested a quick random fly by of a SW ship and it doesn't linger they see it and it's gone again?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

What if it was like I had suggested a quick random fly by of a SW ship and it doesn't linger they see it and it's gone again?

Isn't that what we call a "Cameo Appearance"?

Star Wars already did that in Star Trek

Spoiler: EC Henry - The Millennium Falcon is in Star Trek

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[TREK_GOD_1]

Depends on whom you ask, some like the Disney-era shows.
Depends on which series and which episodes.

There's no large number or majority of moviegoers / SW fans claiming the Disney era is producing the greatest or best of the concept. Generally, its the opposite opinion.

And here I thought Star Wars exists to tell stories set in it's universe first.
Not necessarilly follow the religious / spiritual under tones that you love.

Yes, we get it--you do not love or remotely care for the foundation of why Star Wars exists.

Because it's a fun universe to explore. Just because it might've been founded on one concept, doesn't mean it has to stay 100% revolved around said concept.
There are plenty of worlds of story telling that don't revolve around that.

Your "worlds" have no meaning other than leeching from the legacy and structure of the very thing which justified that galaxy's existence as a story.

Just because you seem to be fixated around the "Spirtitual Core" of Star Wars, doesn't mean other fans are.
Many of us care about other things within Star Wars and aren't particularly attached to that aspect of it.

"Many?" Hardly. As an IP., no one is investing in SW to see random, largely soulless characters and common sci-fi tropes. You can dig up OS Lost in Space or Voyager for that.

So apparently only the "SkyWalker Saga" is the REAL Story, and everything else is ancillary.

Star Wars is about the Skywalkers, the Force and the spiritual struggle framing a civil war. Remove that, and there's no Star Wars. You might as well watch Voltron,Buck Rogers in the 25th Century or Bravestarr.

I mean, the argument is to remove the spiritual in favor of more scientific in a franchise established as a space fantasy story. So, um, it seems to remove the bare essence of what was set force by Lucas initially.

Of course, but anyone operating from such a militant, atheistic position about the Force in SW is asking the concept to become Star Trek: Voyager or TNG.

Not sure why more science of the Force is needed here.

To remove the religous, as if the Force--how it relates to its users and having a Will (and a conceived destiny) can be explained away like so much Berman-Trek technobabble.

I believe that fell under "mystical mumbo jumbo" that was to be excluded.

^ This.

Last I checked the Jedi still existed so I'm afraid you and I watched different Episode 9s.

Indeed. I'm not sure how he missed that.

I think if Star Wars is to continue that idea appealing to the masses is the way to go. Because, the stories of Star Wars captured the public imagination at a huge level.

..and that appeal to the masses has the religious / spiritual characters and stories as it foundation, reason-to-be and call to action.