Spoilers The Controversial Star Wars Opinion Thread
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Despite online opinions in forums which are subject to "HEAVY Personal Biases" & a "VERY LOUD minority", the Hard #'s have proven that Star Wars from Disney is a Over All success.
Even most of the Spin-Off TV/Streaming content is a success minus one show getting it's second season cancelled.
Is Disney Bad at Star Wars? An Analysis - Hollywood Reporter
- Disney bought Star Wars entire IP off of George Lucas along with LucasFilms for $4 Billion.
+ "SW: The Force Awaken"…… has generated $2.0 Billion Globally
+ "SW: The Last Jedi"……… … has generated $1.3 Billion Globally
+ "SW: The Rise of SkyWalker" has generated $1.0 Billion Globally
+ "Rogue One: A SW Story"… . has generated $1.0 Billion Globally
+ "Solo: A SW Story"………… . has generated $393 Million Globally <- Launching so soon after last X-mas SW was a HUGE mistake IMO, they should've waited until next X-mas
+ "The Mandalorian" carried Disney+ and only really stumbled at Season 3 with a ratings slip & online backlash
_ Mando S3 Opened to 823 Million MoVT (Minutes of View Time) according to Nielson ratings.
_ Instead of Season 4 of "The Mandalorian", they're pivoting into a Movie Release in theaters for "The Mandalorian & Grogu".
+ "The Book of Boba Fett" worked well enough as a one-off series
+ "Obi-Wan Kenobi" opened to 1.03 Billion MoVT & concluded with 860 Million MoVT for it's finale
+ "Andor" opened to 624 Million MoVT & concluded with 400 Million MoVT in the following weeks & finished with 674 Million MoVT
_ "Andor" has done well enough to get a 2nd season
+"Ahsoka's" premiere ratings was comparable to Mando S3 with 829 Million MoVT & Averaged out to 570 Million MoVT for the rest of it's run
_ A 2nd Season of "Ahsoka" is in development
+ "The Acolyte" has the lowest rating with a premiere of 488 Million MoVT, after that it's ratings sunk
_ The 2nd season was canceled.
Disney+ took off like a rocket in 2019, steadily climbed to peak in the fourth quarter of 2022 with 164 million subs worldwide, and then started dropping for the first time to currently settle around 153 million.
During a presentation in March to fight an activist investor who accused the company of overspending, Disney also revealed Lucasfilm has generated nearly $12 billion in total revenue on its $4 billion investment.
Overall, Disney Star Wars is doing just fine. They just need to slow down and pace themselves while focusing on quality instead of purely quantity.
Also avoid releasing content in Theaters that are too close to each other in time frame. That was a stupid manuever from Disney that didn't need to happen.
Yes, we get it, you're a staunch "Gate Keeper" of the Old Guard & DO NOT want ANYBODY ELSE playing in your Star Wars sand box if it doesn't conform to your perception of what "Star Wars" is.
Everybody else can sod off, because we don't conform to what you deem as "Acceptable REAL Star Wars".
"My World's" will bring new types of story telling to a Star Wars fan base.
People complain about everything being the same-o, same-o, offering them a option within the same universe to do something different is always a nice change of pace.
Otherwise you're being too safe & re-hashing the same thing Over & Over.
And yet Star Wars works just fine when it doesn't focus on the SkyWalker Saga and touches the other part of the well developed Universe.
Yet all the Expanded Content that doesn't revolve around the "Sky Walker" Saga has done well enough that they are continuing on that path while making a few more new "Non-SkyWalker Saga" Force related content.
There's more of "The High Republic" that you can cover.
Or you can wait and see what Disney decides to do with "The New Jedi Order" that is headed up by Rey SkyWalker.
We'll see if they fall into old trappings, or will they go a new route, something genuinely different.
Like promote a more balanced interpretation of "The Force" with "Gray Jedi" instead of the Dogmatic Polar Extremes like the "Old Jedi order" & "The Sith".
I just wish there was a term that didn't use "Gray Jedi" since being affiliated with either the "Jedi or Sith" is a loaded term.
Something more Neutral & Balanced would be nice.
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I look forward to them going against Lucas.
Should be almost as entertaining as the accusations of Lucas raping childhoods complaints from fans when the Prequels were released.
15 Shades Of Gray Jedi: Exploring The Middle Path Of The Force - CBR
I'm not sure the world supports neutral. A neutral figure would have to allow evil to take place. Which, I would argue, makes them no longer neutral and, in fact, evil.
People act like there is somehow more nuance to the idea of "gray" Force users. But there really isn't. The dark side is fueled by emotion, sure. But it's primarily about intent. If you have evil intent it manifests evil action. There is no reaching for the dark in order to achieve some nominal good. The ends may justify the means, to some. Sure. That's a discussion we can have. But finding balance within oneself doesn't make one "gray", it makes one a Jedi. That's kind of their whole point, when they are functioning properly and not fallen into decay and dogma.
I always assumed the Dark Side was like an infection Force users are susceptible to, making having to strive to be a good almost a necessity. Otherwise, why would Luke so willingly bend the knee to the Emperor after striking down Vader like he wanted him to do?
Would you call the rest of the Western World "Evil" for not coming in to help Ukraine push back Russia for their aggression?
The entire "Western World" could do ALOT more and get physically involved, but that might trigger WW3 or other larger forms of War.
While "The West" is technically "Neutral" but provides some form of Military Aid to Ukraine to fight their own war against Russian Invasion.
Reality is never as simple as just being neutral, makes them evil.
What about all the countries in Europe who made "Peace Treaties" with Hitler's Germany?
They all kept signing "Peace Treaties" / "Armistices / Neutrality Pacts", but Hitler kept on violating it, in the end we know what happens with the rest of WW2.
Many countries in Europe didn't want to fight, does that make them evil?
We all know what happened in WW2 & the countless death that did occur; would you cast judgement on all those predecessors for not fighting back and just wanting peace?
Reality is a bit harder to judge IMO.
Hindsight being 20/20, it's far easier to judge things now after the fact, when you weren't in their shoes & are casting judgement on those who lived it.
Especially from the safety of the future and know the consequences of their actions. Reality is a bit more murky IMO.
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. There is more nuance IMO.
That part is obvious & self evident.
Fighting for Self Defense, Preservation of what you have, & Survival by doing dark things to live. That is natural & logical.
You can argue that it's evil, but everybody has a right to live, if somebody is trying to kill you, take from you, etc; you should arguably kill them right back so you can survive & maintain your peace.
Letting yourself die/lose is foolish and won't deter the aggressor or others like said aggressor from acting out their evil deeds in the future.
In fact, it'll do the exact opposite and just encourage them (the aggressor) to go the same route with somebody else or you in particular at some point in the future.
The only gurantee that (that specific aggressor) won't be able to cause more harm in the future to you or somebody else is to attempt to end them permanently.
While that may be considered "Dark", there is ALOT of good to be had by doing so sucessfully.
Then that is one less evil in the world, and you brought balance & peace to society by stopping said evil from succeeding in their goals at that moment in time.
What makes one "Gray" or "Balanced" is not starting a fight, but making sure that you will end said fight if it comes time to do so.
That's my PoV.
That works (in a Star Wars context): if instead of going to crazy violent extremes to force something evil to happen, you go to crazy violent extremes to force something good to happen, the point is that you’ve gone to the crazy violent extremes, and so circled around to “evil” anyway, even if you’re too far gone to see it.
EDIT: That said, so far the character
Silvo
"there is no dark side, there is no light side" is complete nonsense, disproven by every conceivable kind of canon source, including animation & films.
Indeed. The real world is not Star Wars. Star Wars has presented a world that has the Force and both a Dark Side and a Light Side. The Dark Side doesn't have nuance in this view. It is driven by selfish emotion and a quest for personal power.
We can insert real world ideas all we want but Star Wars has an established order.
Capitalizing "Over All Success" does not make it so. Most of the Disney SW productions are not runaway hits resonating with the masses like the original films. They are largely viewed for what they are: spin-offs and would-be cash grabs.
Translation: you do not know, nor understand why Lucas created SW in the way he did, and think its some loose assemblage of worn-out sci-fi tropes seen in endless, non-SW sci-fi movies and TV series over the past 40+ years. Individuals like yourself are dragging the franchise down with a "just do anything / screw the point of the concept" mentality.
No one is responding to that.
The average person--moviegoer--you know, the audience necessary to make films a success and if possible, a cultural phenomenon like the OT--does not know or care about the Disney series at all. The OT instantly became a cultural phenomenon which still resonates to this day. That is not being said about the D+ shows, or the awful ST. Sorry, but its not happening. In this era, Stranger Things has a significantly broader appeal and connection to views than any SW/Disney streaming series.
Sorry, but spiritual / ideological poles exist. Good and evil--operating from their positions and not consciously operating here in-between--exist. You do not understand that, so you lean into the ridiculous "Gray Jedi" crap, which is just another way of wanting the Jedi to be versions of PT Anakin (AOTC/ROTS, obviously), who was a self-made collection of anger and ego, thinking he was going to cross any moral line to achieve his ends. Worked out fabulously for that one... The "Gray Jedi" crap in only for those who--for some reason--(from the arguments here, very likely atheistic at its core) resent a natural adherence to being one of strong morals with an incorruptible soul. In other words, why OT Luke Skywalker--the man who overcame the worst kind of evil / temptations--became and remains one of cinema's greatest heroes.
Star Wars is not about Jedi anti-heroes with a leaning toward the Dark Side.
Yes, it is nonsense, and anything other than Star Wars.
You keep trying to make this argument about the real world. Ukraine isn't Star Wars. World War 2 isn't Star Wars. Trying to compare some of the grossest evil ever committed to a fictional adventure story is frankly depressing.
That said. Here is my fundamental problem with your argument, in the context of Star Wars. What you just described above? That's Anakin Skywalker.
And the world of Star Wars has already established it's position on Anakin pretty damn clearly.
So... a Jedi? See also: Obi-Wan in Episode 1, Luke aboard Jabba's Sail Barge, etc.
Though it also could be suggested that a lot of real-world gray areas aren’t as gray as we make them out to be… but that gets into the weeds.
The Darkside is a corruption, a perversion of the force.
That's why eliminating all dark side users bring it back into balance.
This comes from George himself.
Then you aren't understanding the philosophy that they're trying to teach.
You're looking at it from a superficial Out-of-Universe PoV instead of trying to learn the philosophical tenents of what it's trying to teach from a In-Universe PoV.
How many derivative movie works in ANY major franchise been a "Run Away Success"?
Few & Far in between when you look at a larger picture of sequel film works.
How Successful Are Movie Sequels? Find an overview of the movie sequel landscape looking at the past 100 years of film.
~67% of all sequel movies this past century made less $ than their original
~10% of all sequel movies this past century made about the same
~23% of all sequel movies this past century made more $ than their original.
What you're expecting is not realistic from sequel movies, no matter how good the original movie is.
Star Wars is no exception to that rule.
- Star Wars Global Box Office Returns -
Star Wars: Ep 4 = (1977) $ 775,398,007 -> (2024) $4,036,842,300.70
Star Wars: Ep 5 = (1980) $ 538,375,067 -> (2024) $2,061,329,672.49
Star Wars: Ep 6 = (1983) $ 475,106,177 -> (2024) $1,504,946,517.07
Star Wars: Ep 1 = (1999) $1,046,515,409 -> (2024) $1,981,802,436.56
Star Wars: Ep 2 = (2002) $ 653,779,970 -> (2024) $1,146,542,546.28
Star Wars: Ep 3 = (2005) $ 868,390,560 -> (2024) $1,402,822,032.49
Star Wars: Ep 7 = (2015) $2,071,310,218 -> (2024) $2,757,118,158.64
Star Wars: Ep 8 = (2017) $1,334,407,706 -> (2024) $1,717,510,975.80
Star Wars: Ep 9 = (2019) $1,077,022,372 -> (2024) $1,329,097,263.95
Rogue 1: SW _ = (2016) $1,058,682,142 -> (2024) $1,391,654,431.02
Solo: SW ____ = (2018) $ 392,924,807 -> (2024) $ 493,674,115.56
Also, more "Gate Keeping". If you think other fellow SW / Sci-Fi fans are the problem, then you've become too dogmatic in your ways and are driving out other members of the fandom.
The Mandalorian's sucess is proof that it works.
Rogue 1 is proof that it works
Andor is proof that it works
Most of the non-core content has profited is proof that it works.
It takes NOTHING away from the existing works or your enjoyment of the originals.
It only adds to the collective whole by drawing in other fans.
What are you so afraid of?
With what evidence do you state that?
How you feel? Forum posts?
The Mandalorian is it's own hit
Rogue 1 is beloved by many folks in the Star Wars community.
The other Disney Star Wars shows have found it's audience.
Disney is going to appeal to the "Stranger Things" crowd with "Skeleton Crew"
That was the intention of the original SkyWalker Saga, the way it was meant to be played out by George Lucas.
Great for Luke, he's literally 1 in a Billion and was written to do that.
Star Wars is what the writer makes it to be.
We have new movies coming that can change that.
To not rehash & retread the old content.
He was written to fall.
There were plenty of opportunities to save Anakin and prevent his downfall.
The Jedi Council could've freed his mother from slavery and kept her on Coruscant in a safe desk job or simple job.
When Mace Windu was going to arrest the Chancellor, he had his opportunity to not kill Palpatine, if he chose to arrest him and put him on trial, things could've gone differently.
There are any number of situations that could've made Anakin not be designed to fall if history was changed.
But because George Lucas wanted to write Anakin as the one to fall, then they wrote him as such.
More Qui Gon Jinn, less Obi-Wan
15 Shades Of Gray Jedi: Exploring The Middle Path Of The Force
Baylan Skoll & Shin Hati are very similar to what a "Gray Jedi" archetype would be right now.
The dark side is a fundamental part of the Force.
No, they are Dark Jedi. In essence they are Sith in all but name.KamenRiderBlade said:
KamenRiderBlade said:
Whoever "they" are, they are not trying to teach that the sides of the Force do not exist. That is an internet rando position. It is not the position held by the franchise.
S2 of Ahsoka is coming, so we'll see.
Skeleton Crew may be better than Ahsoka AND Obi-Wan Kenobi. That's my controversial take for the day.
I can one up that. Skeleton Crew may be better than The Mandalorian.
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Didn't the EU eventually realize that the whole "Gray Jedi" thing was a mistake and do a whole storyline where Luke and the other Jedi realized it was bullshit?
I'm kind of amazed Luasfilm ever even OKed the whole concept, since it so completely goes against the whole philosophy of the Force the franchise was built around.
Honestly, that was a symptom of a larger problem that the EU had developed by the time we got to the New Jedi Order and everything from around that time. The whole thing had changed and built up so much of it's own stuff that it was almost completely unrecognizable as the same franchise as the Original Trilogy. I still enjoyed some of it, but I tended to approach it as it's own thing separate from the movies.
I'm kind of amazed Luasfilm ever even OKed the whole concept, since it so completely goes against the whole philosophy of the Force the franchise was built around.
Honestly, that was a symptom of a larger problem that the EU had developed by the time we got to the New Jedi Order and everything from around that time. The whole thing had changed and built up so much of it's own stuff that it was almost completely unrecognizable as the same franchise as the Original Trilogy. I still enjoyed some of it, but I tended to approach it as it's own thing separate from the movies.
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