Spoilers Joy to the World grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Two days before it airs is considered "late posting"? LOL
Have the reviews not been very good? The only one I've seen so far is IGN, and they gave it a 9/10.
https://www.ign.com/articles/doctor-who-christmas-special-review-joy-to-the-world
I usually post it by Winter Solstice!Two days before it airs is considered "late posting"? LOL
Both A.V. Club (meh) and io9 (eh) gave it non-glowing reviews.
Can't wait!
Now understand Jaime's comment in another thread - the "soap twist" was shamelessly manipulative and definitely likely to be difficult for some families.
Grrr that the Doctor only gave Anita a job instead of showing up in the TARDIS to say hi.
And we know he's not oblivious to attraction these days, ffs. Though it IS Moffatt writing, he seems to bounce back and forth between the Doctor thinking he fancies people and being unable to distinguish basic emotions.
The "instill anger" thing was something written for Capaldi (or with that Doctor in mind), certainly.
Otherwise, I loved the Doctor having to live with a new pal for a year just to teach himself a lesson.
Grrr that the Doctor only gave Anita a job instead of showing up in the TARDIS to say hi.
And we know he's not oblivious to attraction these days, ffs. Though it IS Moffatt writing, he seems to bounce back and forth between the Doctor thinking he fancies people and being unable to distinguish basic emotions.
The "instill anger" thing was something written for Capaldi (or with that Doctor in mind), certainly.
Otherwise, I loved the Doctor having to live with a new pal for a year just to teach himself a lesson.
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Enjoyable, silly romp. I loved the Time Hotel and the idea of the star seed in a suitcase, but something about overall story didn't click for me.
I did like how The Doctor was forced to live out a year normally and the necessary lessons for The Doctor (and how he still didn't learn others). However, I think I would've enjoyed it more if it had been the focus of a whole episode instead being an aside to get past in order to return to the main threat.
I could've done without the Bethlehem moment at the end (and the title card was completely unnecessary).
I did like how The Doctor was forced to live out a year normally and the necessary lessons for The Doctor (and how he still didn't learn others). However, I think I would've enjoyed it more if it had been the focus of a whole episode instead being an aside to get past in order to return to the main threat.
I could've done without the Bethlehem moment at the end (and the title card was completely unnecessary).
Lots of plot conveniences to explain the plot holes. The story didn't need to involve Trev after his death but it did. Moffat always finds some type of easy way out to hurry the story along.
"Don't worry Doctor. I've had millions of years to integrate myself into the bad guys systems."
I would have been fine with a smaller story with the doctor on earth for a year living a normal life but then an alien threat hits the small city or town
"Don't worry Doctor. I've had millions of years to integrate myself into the bad guys systems."
I would have been fine with a smaller story with the doctor on earth for a year living a normal life but then an alien threat hits the small city or town
Well, Moffat's gonna Moffat. Nah, I don't mean to sound so harsh, this is a fun and enjoyable episode, though the Moffat tropes sure were on full display. Timey-wimey hijinks, check. Characters becoming digital ghosts after they die, check. Characters only becoming sort of dead, check. The tragic fate of Joy's mother getting a more positive spin by the end, check. Granted, it is Christmas, so I can't fault the decision to go with something positive and uplifting. But it is a well worn Moffat trope, and I personally found it completely predictable. Well, sort of, at first I thought Joy's mother would somehow be saved, but then once the scene with her was set at the end, I knew they'd have her join the Joy Star. Which, yeah, Christmas, better to be positive and uplifting, I guess.
And speaking of obvious and predictable, Bethlehem could be seen coming at least ten minutes out.
But enough of my bitching. The dialogue, specifically the snappy one-liners were on fire in this episode and I will agree with the above sentiment that the Doctor stuck on Earth of an entire year as well as his developing friendship with Anita could have easily been its own episode.
And speaking of obvious and predictable, Bethlehem could be seen coming at least ten minutes out.
But enough of my bitching. The dialogue, specifically the snappy one-liners were on fire in this episode and I will agree with the above sentiment that the Doctor stuck on Earth of an entire year as well as his developing friendship with Anita could have easily been its own episode.
As an unabashed Moffat fanboy, I loved this. My wife, occasional DW fan (started watching during Tennant, left during Whitaker, watched Fourteenant and the occasional Gatwa) also enjoyed it as did my total DW newbie brother in law. Will watch again.
Besides the ending, this was rather fun and wonderful. All sentiments above, especially about the Doctor staying in one place for a year, I would echo. And yeah, that particular plot point should've been the entire episode, IMO. But, still, pretty good.
It's nice to have new Who to watch on Christmas again!
It's nice to have new Who to watch on Christmas again!
I will say I was greatly relieved that Moffat didn't save Joy's mother at the end. As soon as Joy confessed her pain to The Doctor, I was petrified that he would reverse it by the end. The theme should be about people living with their pain and that part of episode shined through.
I did consider that after Joy's iPad message ended the Doctor was going to show up with her in the TARDIS to say goodbye in person. The "ascending to heaven to be with your loved ones" thing was too on the nose for a grumpy atheist, but hey-ho. Bet 15 is kicking himself he had to make do with a library to save River to...
I didn't mind Trev having integrated into the Villengard tech - his whole schtick was that he felt he kept letting people down and by (the tribe of) Gum he wasn't going to THIS time.
The Mister Benn shout-out was cute.
I hadn't remembered that the hospital Joy's mum is in was the same one Martha was training at when Ten met her till I went to TV Tropes.
I didn't mind Trev having integrated into the Villengard tech - his whole schtick was that he felt he kept letting people down and by (the tribe of) Gum he wasn't going to THIS time.
The Mister Benn shout-out was cute.
I hadn't remembered that the hospital Joy's mum is in was the same one Martha was training at when Ten met her till I went to TV Tropes.
It was okay, on average. Moffat fairy tale stuff where nothing has to make much sense as long as there's Moffatisms and feels.
I loved it. Hit me harder than I actually expected in places and I did have a tear in my eye at several points.
Was it a bit of a Moffat's greatest hits in places, maybe, emotionally manipulative, could be, do I care? Not one jot.
The only thing that bugs me is why Joy wasn't disintegrated when she disconnected from the briefcase?
Also, though not a plot hole per se, I'm intrigued as to who's hut that was 65 million years ago.
The long way round, Anita bit was wonderful (is there a bring back Anita poll anywhere yet?).
For a while I genuinely wondered why they'd bothered to get Nicola Coughlan in for such a nothing part...
And then we got THAT scene. Magnificent. Just magnificent. She was wonderful, and kudos to Moffat for going there, for channelling the anger so many of us felt.
I really hope this isn't the last time Moffat writes for Who.
Oh yeah, and it goes without saying that Ncuti was bloody fantastic!
Was it a bit of a Moffat's greatest hits in places, maybe, emotionally manipulative, could be, do I care? Not one jot.
The only thing that bugs me is why Joy wasn't disintegrated when she disconnected from the briefcase?
Also, though not a plot hole per se, I'm intrigued as to who's hut that was 65 million years ago.
The long way round, Anita bit was wonderful (is there a bring back Anita poll anywhere yet?).
For a while I genuinely wondered why they'd bothered to get Nicola Coughlan in for such a nothing part...
And then we got THAT scene. Magnificent. Just magnificent. She was wonderful, and kudos to Moffat for going there, for channelling the anger so many of us felt.
I really hope this isn't the last time Moffat writes for Who.
Oh yeah, and it goes without saying that Ncuti was bloody fantastic!
This was a lot of fun, the whole Time Hotel concept was great. Joy was a really nice one off companion.
The stuff with The Doctor and Anita was the best part of the episode.
I actually like the whole thing with Joy, Trev, and all of them living on in the star, and Joy's mom getting to join her was a nice way to give her a happy ending. Maybe a little cheesy, but this is a Christmas story, and a Christmas story really needs to have a feel good happy ending.
I really hope we get to revist The Time Hotel and Anita again at some point.
I had a thought at the end, what if Mrs. Flood is actually Anita after she's retired from the Time Hotel, and possibly had other run ins with the Doctor where she learned about him and the TARDIS and all of that? I can imagine working in a place like that for a long time is going to have some pretty drastic effects on a person.
The stuff with The Doctor and Anita was the best part of the episode.
I actually like the whole thing with Joy, Trev, and all of them living on in the star, and Joy's mom getting to join her was a nice way to give her a happy ending. Maybe a little cheesy, but this is a Christmas story, and a Christmas story really needs to have a feel good happy ending.
I really hope we get to revist The Time Hotel and Anita again at some point.
I had a thought at the end, what if Mrs. Flood is actually Anita after she's retired from the Time Hotel, and possibly had other run ins with the Doctor where she learned about him and the TARDIS and all of that? I can imagine working in a place like that for a long time is going to have some pretty drastic effects on a person.
The stuff with the Doctor staying in the hotel with Anita for a year was by far the best part of the episode. I think much of the last half suffered by comparison, as Anita felt like a more complete character than Joy and I would have rather seen more of her. It didn't help that Joy had to be robotic for much of her scenes due to being controlled by the briefcase. But she did get some good moments eventually. The hospital scene was very touching. The Bethlehem bit made me lol.
My spidey senses (or Masters in Creative Writing and Decades of Who and Moff experience…) warned me from the review that as a family that lost people in similar circumstances that what was being hinted at has served me well this time. I came in here to observe the episode through its shadow, like looking at an eclipse, and yup… it would *not* have been a happy experience in my house, reading the descriptions here.
That’s not a judgement on the quality or anything, except to say, perhaps ‘too soon’. Moffat at least usually avoids misery porn, usually managing to keep it just about the right side of mawkish — but am not risking emotional fallout for me or my nearest and dearest.
(Boom was a little on the nose too really, some of us don’t like to deal with parent/child relationships affected by mortality.)
It’s modern manipulative storytelling at times though, which after a while wears you down. (See also: Picard S2)
