How very Norman.
And Greek.
And Greek.
What is your personal head canon?
- Thread starter AmandaSmith
- Start date
Reasonable. Though it’s basically childish and lowbrow now; we use it out of habit (though it at least used to be considered *beep*able on broadcast television).
It could be that by the 2030s missile defense technology has progressed to the point that most of the warheads were knocked down.,
Beyond that, it wouldn’t take too many “hits” to cause massive global disruptions.
I remember modeling of a “limited” exchange between India and Pakistan showed that the effects to global climate, food supply, increased cancers, etc., wouldn’t be an extinction level event, but would still be goddamn awful.
I have a whole thing worked out but i'm going to try to do a tl;dr version...
Second Civil War is the beginning of the Eugenics Wars, it was attempt at an Augment take over of the US. It didn't quite as planned for the augments, and dragged on for some time. That rolled into the larger Eugenics Wars, where other augments did successfully seize power and build empires elsewhere, we know Khan took over India and swaths of Asia.
Eugenics Wars are part the augments seizing power and conquering their empires, part fighting amongst each other. This fighting is largely in Asia and the middle east. At some point along the way, the SACW ends and the western powers are able to muster a push to take down the augment empires. They succeed, but that also leaves a power vacuum that is filled by non-augments quickly scrambling to carve out their own sections of the remnants of the augment empires.
These remnant empires have enough war apparatus to roll into a proper World War 3. The augments had superior technology (Kelvin Khan was able to design a fucking starship...), and despite having been absolutely ravaged by war, so too were the western powers, and that technological advantage was beginning to tip the scales. I go somewhat darker on it, It was the US/Western powers who preemptively started the nuclear exchange, fearing they couldn't continue on fighting conventionally. They were too war exhausted. The remnant empires were absolutely decimated, but they were also able to get some of the nuclear weapons deployed. The US still got hit... New York City has always been oddly absent from Trek, I think it was absolutely cratered. Many other cities were hit... an almost odd exception being San Francisco, which by grace of god had made it through the entire war(s) virtually unscathed. It's part of the reason why San Fran is so important to Trek going forward... it was one of the few major cities left standing in one piece and became a major world hub post-war.
So while many places where hit, Asia was hit harder. The nuclear exchange itself "only" killed 600 million, but it served to topple a good majority of the governments. Whereas the western nations had taken more in the way of conventional losses, less nuclear annihilation, they were able to recover faster. First contact happens, western people within a few years are sending out warp colony ships... much of Asia is a Mad Max-style post-apocalyptic wasteland, and remains such through to the early/mid-early 22nd century.
In the end, especially with the victors being able to write history, it's the augments who are ultimately blamed for the nuclear war. They take the blame for the SACW, and starting the whole chain of events that lead to both the nuclear exchange and the subsequent mass deaths in the aftermath. This all becomes ingrained into the human experience, even centuries later, humans are anti-genetic engineering zealots.
Perhaps they pulled strings behind the scenes with proxies as camouflage for other things they were doing?
I rather think it was a slave race gone right. It's just that race outlived their makers.
The Pakleds are specialist geniuses. They've shown an ability to make anything work with anything else in ways that it normally takes starfleet engineering to pull off. Granted their kludges are ineffeciant, overly trusting so the code runs, and they don't understand enough to fabricate replacements, but that they're able to make everything work with everything else is facinating.
They are also a hardy people.
Essentially space ogre.
Imagine what would happen if yo ucould get one to understand the value in delayed gratification.
Getting a pakled group to understand the idea of getting more output by taking longer to get thigns right rather than 'it works for now.'
I mean you have paklad traders on deep space 9 so not all of 'em are pillaging and hijacking.
I think the Pakleds just got lucky that they have lived so long w/o being conquered.
I wouldn't go that far, yes they get stuff to work. But who knows who did it for them or if there is only a few smart slaves helping them out.
Remember, they kidnapped Geordi to force him into slave labor.
Are you 100% sure that the "Pakleds" themselves did it, and they didn't kidnap another engineer from somewhere and threatened them with violence to do the work?
I think that's intentional kludgery just to get away from these "Space Ogres" & their penchant for violence should things not go their way.
I'll give you that, they're big hardy space ogres.
Literally a species that are all built like "Brock Lesnar".
But with FAR less intelligence
True, but with a bit of "Dumb & Dumber & Even Dumber".
Good Luck with that.
Not worth my time, let somebody who cares about it, go help teach them to do & understand that concept.
True, but that doesn't mean I want to deal with them as a species.
They seem to have found technology that gives them FTL access, I doubt anybody in their species truly understands how it works other than "press button, go fast!"
Isn't that kind of the point?
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I wouldn't expect a "Professional WorkPlace" like in StarFleet to be filled with Officers who used "Low Brow" language.
There are "Minimum Standards" to keep.
Oh, you'd be surprised (and by that I mean "not surprised at all") at how even the most dedicated of professionals can swear a blue streak.
Hell, you've heard of the expression "curse like a sailor", amirite?
Hell, you've heard of the expression "curse like a sailor", amirite?
I get where you are coming from with being kinda fed up with Pakleds and can't really fault the attitude.
After all they KIDNAPPED AN ENGINEER WHEN THEY COULDN'T JUST SLAP A NEW PART IN. Then again that was, I think, just ot get a guy there to go 'make the stuff we have work better.'
I'm honestly shocked they saw the literal federation flagship and went 'yea. We can bamboozle them' AND IT WORKED.
I'm personally of hte mind pakleds are hardwired for immediate gratification and either have an ingrained knowledge base, a cultural bend towards a few go to methods, or... Something. Pakled Planet wasn't an engineering wonder, but as places go? Nice clean city. Well built symetrical construction. Would've been real easy to show the place as constantly falling apart and looking like a kid crammed lincoln logs together but nope! they showed shockingly well thought out construction. Nothing revolutionary but like... 'HUH. Did they build this, or are they just using it?'
Their big plan was to try getting the federation to give them a new planet to strip out for stuff. Nevermind their own world looked like it had a lot to offer, but was probably running out of the easy to grab stuff.
My own biases and lense come from 'hey I was in special ed for awhile then went to a dedicated school for the blind and by that point it'd most of the way turned into a dumping ground for low functioning kids with maybe classes of six to eight wit ha dozen being considered large.' So... I've seen people that are very.. VERY pakled-like. Most were genuinely..... not bright in any way or shape. Others? VERY bright in singular areas. Very... TERRIFYINGLY knowledgable in a specific slice of knowledge.
So when I say I can understand why you would be thoroughly not on board for trying to see if you can get a group of them to learn long term planning? It comes from a place of experiance being one of the more normal functioning people basically getting herded along with a group of fifty or so of several dorms worth of kids most of whom were ... dim .... basically enforcing outside time, or watching barny, or kids movies, or the like.
But there is story potential there with the pakleds. Either to show how their society manages to work, or to show that their society didn't ever really work and it took this long for it to collapse because (reasons.) There's also a lot of problems telling pakled stories because of how hard coded special needs they are it can and in many ways does come across as offensive.
But I wanna see people try.
If that's their way of behaving, I think everybody in the greater InterStellar community is going to shun them.
People will warn others about the Pakleds and the horrible actions that they have done to others.
Not an excuse for kidnapping others & enslaving them.
It worked for a moment, but it won't work the next time.
That could've been the previous occupants constructed the city.
That also could've been done by the previous occupants, and not the current people.
Again, not proof that the Pakleds did all that themselves, they might've inherited it from a different species that are gone now.
I think they're using what was left behind.
Not the UFP's job to help them if they can't figure stuff out, I don't think they developed the FTL tech that they're using, they managed to either:
1) Find it accidentally & make it work somehow.
2) Bartered for it somehow
3) Stole it from some poor species
4) Coerced some naive species who was visiting.
5) Drove away their oppressing species who used them as slave labor and took their FTL tech.
I used to have room-mates who have Aspergers Syndrome.
They used their condition as a excuse for being a arse of a human being to others and to take advantage of others while shirking their own responsibility to do their best.
Obviously, I eventually moved away from them, but they weren't the type of people who I wanted to be around.
I've had bad experiences, so I'm not willing to help them.
If somebody else is willing to, that's on them to do so.
Or it can show that they didn't even develop their own FTL tech and that they should be actually considered a "Pre-Warp" species who isn't ready for the stars.
That their people might need to be re-isolated and given a few millenium to develop into a normal species that re-develops their FTL on their own.
Their behavior & actions towards other species isn't acceptable.
Think of what happend to the poor USS Solvang.
An entire ship of StarFleet Officers was lost because of their piracy.
Who knows how many other people were killed, hurt, enslaved because of their recent actions.
Look at the Pakled Ship, the "Mondor Type".
It's a ship that has been used by numerous species (due to redress reasons IRL)
But the fact that it's used by multiple species seems to show that it was a highly traded / sold commercial vessel.
In fact, it's variants are used by the:
1) Pakled
2) Acamarian
3) Cardassian
4) Trill
5) Satarran
6) Kostolain
7) Rigelian
8) Upgraded Pakled Clump Ship
9) Nova Fleet
But to me, it looks like a cheaper / crappier Corellian Freightor "Wanna-be Knock-Off" that can be modded like a Hot-Rod.
That's why it ends up in so many different species / factions hands.
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OK I'm going to be blunt then.
Why are you responding? You're coming across as hyper combative, rude, dismissive of any opinions that are not your own, and frankly you seem like you are both spoiling for a fight and are using your own biases to sit and swing at people while hiding behind 'but i lived with a person who was bad.'
You could have, instead, chosen to not engage wit ha topic you know to be a sore spot. So what gives?
You yelling that I'm stupid for trying to see potential in a scifi joke race isn't going to make the memory of you having a really poor roomie any less of a lived experience.
I am going to ask that you step back and reevaluate things before continuing.
Because I want to.
I have no problems with your opinion, but I don't think that type of species deserves the help that you're willing to offer them.
In fact, you might be putting yourself in more danger if you deal with a species like "The Pakled".
Because I think the Pakleds are a dangerous Barbaric race that shouldn't be trusted given their recent behavior.
The fact that the UFP puts up with them shows how saintly the UFP are.
You're not stupid for seeing the potential in them.
But given the behavior of the Pakleds, I wouldn't trust them either.
Their barbarism, savagery, & dangerous behavior shows that they aren't ready for being part of a greater InterStellar community.
I don't think they could develop FTL as a species in their current mental state.
They acquired it somehow, but are making things work largely through SubterFuge, threats of violence, coercion.
That's not the InterStellar Neighbors that any UFP members wants to deal with, hell most species in the Alpha/Beta Quadrant wouldn't want to deal with them.
Step back from what?
Just speaking my mind?
I worked in an office with Master's and doctorial level staff and there were times we used the "low brow ' language as part of processing challenges.Oh, you'd be surprised (and by that I mean "not surprised at all") at how even the most dedicated of professionals can swear a blue streak.
Hell, you've heard of the expression "curse like a sailor", amirite?
Nice to know we would not qualify for Starfleet
You wouldn't want your local Vulcan Superior Officer to hear you.
You might get a reprimand on your file.
Or the local Betazoid Superior Officer to scan your mind.
You know they will randomly read your mind, because that's what they can do.
My superior often was the one who instigated it.
They can read my mind all they want. I won't stop from speaking my mind. Honesty first, or at least a close second.
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Maybe his superiors need to check up on him.
At least you're honest, I can always respect that.
She seems pretty close with her superior. It's a pretty honest place to discussion, and that might involve language considered unprofessional.
It's ok.
How close are we talking?
BFF level?
Spouse level?
The person they're having an affair with?
If you say so.
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