Nope.
I don't like any of the post Undiscovered Country movies.
And no, I'm not a TOS diehard.
What was up with the B&B hate back in the 90's & 00's?
- Thread starter Admiral Jean-Luc Picard
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I don't like any of the post Undiscovered Country movies.
And no, I'm not a TOS diehard.
What is the objection to the TNG films?
I am really happy that many people are reevaluating the things that Berman and Braga did and I think their work has enjoyed a renaissance of sorts.
Actually, Berman has done very little writing. He only has two solo writing credits in the entire franchise, TNG's Brothers and A Matter of Time. A majority of his writing credits are actually Story By credits, and even then he usually shared that with other writers. His other actual scriptwriting credits are Enterprise episodes where he's listed as a co-writer with Brannon Braga, and I've always been under the impression it was Braga who did the "heavy lifting" there.
You didn't miss much. It wasn't thinly veiled. The veil wasn't even there.
They should've called it Bush Trek that season. Although, in fairness, at least Archer didn't invade Qo'noS after the Xindi attacked. He just blew up a Duras ancestor to show off his new weapons!
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It's a shame that a lot of people were put off by season 3's premise, as the season is still very Star Trek even as the characters lose their way a bit. It does that Year of Hell/Equinox thing where the heroes are pushed to make questionable decisions, and it actually does question them. They could've just gone out, hunted down the terrorists by any means, and then killed them. Mission accomplished. But instead it became about piecing together what was really going on and resolving feuds so that they could tackle the real problems.
I wish I could say it was a massive difference in quality, as for the most part I found it similar to season 1 and 2: lots of boring episodes with a handful of highlights scattered around. But it really picked up with that last stretch, going from Azati Prime to Zero Hour. I remember people saying this at the time as well... because all the sudden positivity got me watching Enterprise again from Azati Prime onwards after I dropped out in season 1.
I wish I could say it was a massive difference in quality, as for the most part I found it similar to season 1 and 2: lots of boring episodes with a handful of highlights scattered around. But it really picked up with that last stretch, going from Azati Prime to Zero Hour. I remember people saying this at the time as well... because all the sudden positivity got me watching Enterprise again from Azati Prime onwards after I dropped out in season 1.
I don't think any of them came close to the series at it's best. They're pretty "meh".
Perhaps controversially I like Nemesis most. I'd not claim it was the best though.
I did not hate B&B. I thought they were burnt out by the later part of Voyager.
The arc was a step up from the planet of the week stuff, but it wasn't exactly a great arc. It was the mini arcs in S4 that rescued the show for me.
Generations was a crap film with ridiculous plot holes and a bunch of check-off marks from Paramount. That being said, it was the closest film to have the same feel of TNG (and the TOS films.) Unfortunately it was also the start of 'we need to have all the sets DARK!' which carried over into the other films, and into DSC and PIC decades later. Luckily the KT films did not follow this nonsense. They just had lens flares.
FC, Insurrection & Nemesis were all just vehicles for Stewart and Spiner, with the rest of the crew along for the ride as secondary characters. FC was also the start of 'Picard: Action Hero,' which carried over to the next two films. So those movies couldn't be more different from TNG.
Oh, hell no. The TNG films rank below the Kelvin films for me.
Others have noted their disagreements with the Berman era (since Braga was not even close to the same level as Berman), but mine are simply sameness. When Berman oversaw more and more it was very cookie cutter. Voyager moved from more a survival show to TNG planet of the week style episodic structure. Enterprise didn't even feel like a prequel because the phase pistols and such were just phasers by any other name. Even the colors were the same for department colors tones.
Berman simply didn't let Trek change much. Other shows were being more creative, more innovative, and doing more fun things. Even Stargate offered up a planet of the week format that was more interesting than Voyager.
The films tried too hard to be different. You had Generations going through a massive checklist and bringing over a lot of TNG baggage for little reward. First Contact insisted upon being like TWOK but with the Borg, and Moby Dick themes reversed. Insurrection went the opposite direction but still had rather odd story choices and Picard as the action hero. Nemesis was again TWOK except with a villain we didn't know with a history we didn't get.
I'm not sure VOY was a 'survival' show even from the get-go. I can't think of a single believable instance where the crew or the ship were ever in danger of losing food, supplies, weapons, fuel, creature comforts, etc.
100% this.
B&B's hate was never that bad. I recall in the early 2010's seeing a Facebook Star Trek hate group post with JJ Abrams' face on urinal targets, as well as people burning Star Trek 2009 DVDs. B&B never got that.
I think fans greatly underappreciate the role UPN played in the "Berman stagnation" / franchise fatigue period. DS9 was overflowing with a stable writing staff, so VGR ended up with all the promising new writers... Bryan Fuller, Michael Taylor... had Braga been given a free hand to go serialized with the Year of Hell, the franchise would've been able to keep up with the new genre developments over in the Buffyverse and Stargate.
One strong criticism that could be leveled against Braga is he just gave up and accepted the structural constraints he was handed, while Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore were able to push back more during DS9 because they didn't have UPN there as an additional gatekeeper.
That said, even with all the constraints at least ENT was boyband free, unlike another more recent entry in the franchise...
One strong criticism that could be leveled against Braga is he just gave up and accepted the structural constraints he was handed, while Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore were able to push back more during DS9 because they didn't have UPN there as an additional gatekeeper.
That said, even with all the constraints at least ENT was boyband free, unlike another more recent entry in the franchise...
Indeed, Braga did admit to feeling burned out towards the end of Voyager's sixth season.
Although there was a guy who posted here just after the rumors leaked that Enterprise was going to do a Borg episode, that hearing that made him throw a brick at his TV.
Oh, look, a swipe at SNW. Yawn.
Funny enough, which popular Trek show featured a musical act?
Neither do I. Every showrunner from Roddenberry onwards was only trying to do the best that they could at the time.
Really, the only issues I ever had was with UPN.
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