Was Sela pointless?

[AntonyF]

My dear friend, since we live in a free society,

That's a very broad "we". Not everyone does.

 

[BohandiAnsoid]

When it comes to Kes, that's another story. She's a fictional character and I have knowledge about how the character was ruined. And since I happen to like the character, I can and will present my opinion about the whole thing without having to be lectured by some "holier than thou person" who don't like my posts and don't agree with me.

Thanks Lynx. You're right. When characters are being treated like then, one not only can but should express their opinions, not silently accept what people say.

 

[Dukhat]

Realistically, though, the other characters had no idea she was a child of Tasha's from another timeline. Other than Picard, and maybe Guinan. I guess they could have talked about it, but to most other people it would seem like pure fiction, and of course something they had no memory of.

And I don't think the Romulans would have felt the need for a half-human 'face' for relations with the UFP. I think they were far too prideful and societally rigid for that.

I do like the idea that the crew might get some notion that Tasha (or a version of her) was alive somewhere in the Romulan Empire, and gone looking for her.

That was actually the subject of a big-budget TNG porn parody: That the crew found alt-Tasha in suspended animation and brought her back to the ship, which turned out to be a plot by Sela to steal the Enterprise. Sela had genetically modified her mother to turn on the Enterprise crew and reprogram the ship, but the plot failed and Tasha ended up dying. For a porn film, it actually had a good plot and acting (other than the actual sex, obviously) and could have totally worked as a seventh season TNG episode.

I always felt like the Sela character was poorly handled. It was a way to get Crosby back on the show, and that's about it. There was so much potential there if they wanted to run with this idea, but ultimately it was squandered. Some of the ideas presented in this thread are far better than what we actually got. Not a real complaint on my part, more an observation.

It might have been better to just let Crosby back as another recurring character completely unrelated to Tasha Yar.

Again, based on how old Sela was supposed to have been (and a mid-30's actor playing a 20-something character, even a Romulan, could still have been somewhat believable as Crosby didn't look that old at the time), she could still have played Sela, but in a completely different context. Revealing her existence and then just basically making her a generic Romulan baddie who was far too young to be put in charge of the military operations she was given was the wrong way to go. I can see why we didn't see any more of her after Unification. All that would have happened was that the writers would have just given her another operation that she would have failed at, because by then she simply had no redeeming qualities. The potential was so much better than the actual outcome.

 

[Lynx]

That's a very broad "we". Not everyone does.

Well, you do have a point here.

But I suppose that most of us on this forum are doing that. Otherwise we might not be allowed to post here or wouldn't know anything about Star Trek.

Thanks Lynx. You're right. When characters are being treated like then, one not only can but should express their opinions, not silently accept what people say.

Yes, since we are discussing Star Trek in common, its different series, characters, plots, episodes and such, then issues about mistreated and misused characters will show up and there will be different opinions about it.

For me, characters mean a lot. If the characters are bland and uninteresting, there is a chance that I might lose interest in a series.

OK, good storytelling is very important too. PIC is an example of a series with good characters, or at least characters who used to be good in TNG but became uninteresting in PIC due to bad storytelling.

And I must admit that I don't like when my favorite characters are misused, dumped, killed off or whatsoever. Sometimes it's just too much of it.

Kes is definitely the worst example on my list but there have been others too.

And when I dislike something, then I tell people what I think about it.

 

[Dukhat]

What you think about it is of no concern of mine.

And when I dislike something, then I tell people what I think about it.

So what you're saying here is that you have this need to tell others your opinion about something that you dislike, but that you don't actually care what they think about it. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of stating your opinion? If you have an opinion but don't give a crap what others think about it, then why state your opinion at all? And conversely, why should any of us waste our time reading your opinion if you don't care what we think about it? Or are the people who agree with your opinion only worthy of your time? This doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Inertial Dampener]

dudes please calm down and lets go back to talking about Sela whom I love

otherwise some moderator will come an lock the thread

Then they will go masturbate according to their respective anatomies in front of a mirror while yelling out loud to the repeating disgust of their neighbors I AM A MODERATOR

So let's keep talking about Sela

 

[Dukhat]

dudes please calm down and lets go back to talking about Sela whom I love

otherwise some moderator will come an lock the thread

Then they will go masturbate according to their respective anatomies in front of a mirror while yelling out loud to the repeating disgust of their neighbors I AM A MODERATOR

So let's keep talking about Sela

Whut

 

[A Ruffian]

Whut

That’s what I was about to ask…

 

[Inertial Dampener]

Whut

That's what I ask myself every day

 

[Mutai Sho-Rin]

dudes please calm down and lets go back to talking about Sela whom I love

otherwise some moderator will come an lock the thread

Then they will go masturbate according to their respective anatomies in front of a mirror while yelling out loud to the repeating disgust of their neighbors I AM A MODERATOR

So let's keep talking about Sela

This MODERATOR is not amused by your bullshit. Keep that up and your tenure here will be very short.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

Was Sela the only blonde Romulan on screen?

 

[Frontis]

Was Sela the only blonde Romulan on screen?

Seems so, I don't remember another one.

 

[Lynx]

So what you're saying here is that you have this need to tell others your opinion about something that you dislike, but that you don't actually care what they think about it. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of stating your opinion? If you have an opinion but don't give a crap what others think about it, then why state your opinion at all? And conversely, why should any of us waste our time reading your opinion if you don't care what we think about it? Or are the people who agree with your opinion only worthy of your time? This doesn't make sense to me.

Dear friend, unfortunately ou have got it all wrong.

I do read and listen to what other people say or write and in most cases, I respect their opinions even if they don't agree with me. That includes you too. I have no conflict with you and I'm not out to create conflicts either.

The conflicts I've been involved in have been because some people have tried to force their opinions on me and tried to force me to change my mind about different issues. Not to mention that they have made it personal and attacked me pesonally and that is something I just can't tolerate.

There are things I simply can't accept and in those situations I stand up and fight for what I think is right, no matter what. It doen't have to be about Star Trek, it's the same about "real life" experiences where I do have an opinion and stand up for it.

But it won't have to deteriate to bickering. I have had and still has many debates on this forum where I have had and still has very cordial and interesting debates with people who don't exactly share my views but are ready to at least accept that I have those views and discuss the issue as such.

It's not about the issue itself, it's how it is discussed that matters.

dudes please calm down and lets go back to talking about Sela whom I love

otherwise some moderator will come an lock the thread

Then they will go masturbate according to their respective anatomies in front of a mirror while yelling out loud to the repeating disgust of their neighbors I AM A MODERATOR

So let's keep talking about Sela

To be honest, the Kes debate doesn't belong in the TNG forum and should be in the Voyager forum instead. I would be happy to see it there instead of here.

The only reason that it turned up here was that it's the worst example of character destruction in Star Trek. But it's not the only one. The NuTrek movies, DSC and PIC managed to mess up a lot of things, not only characters but whole planets and interesting species as well and unfortunately that has continued to the Star Trek books which had become unreadable in recent years.

As it is, I have to check with Memory Beta and friends who read Star Trek books every time I find something interesting. By doing so, I've saved a lot of money which had been wasted otherwise.

As for Sela, for reasons I've mentioned before, I wasn't that fond of the character. The whole thing with someone who was the result of events in another timeline and come to take revenge on people in this timeline was utterly weird.

If it was about just having Denise Crosby back in some role, they could have done it different:

1. Never killed off Tasha, instead make her transfer to another ship and then come back later on if necessary.

2. Crosby could have returned as a sister or twin sister to Tasha.

3. Sela could have been a Romulan without any connection to Tasha or been a half-sister, the result of Tasha's mother having a relationship with a Romulan.

But if you love Sela and like the story, no problem for me. Everyone is entitked to their own opinions and favorite characters.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

As for Sela, for reasons I've mentioned before, I wasn't that fond of the character. The whole thing with someone who was the result of events in another timeline and come to take revenge on people in this timeline was utterly weird.

If it was about just having Denise Crosby back in some role, they could have done it different:

1. Never killed off Tasha, instead make her transfer to another ship and then come back later on if necessary.

2. Crosby could have returned as a sister or twin sister to Tasha.

3. Sela could have been a Romulan without any connection to Tasha or been a half-sister, the result of Tasha's mother having a relationship with a Romulan.

But if you love Sela and like the story, no problem for me. Everyone is entitked to their own opinions and favorite characters.

I think Tasha was killed off, because they weren't expecting Crosby back, and because a transfer would basically mean a demotion, and it wouldn't make sense. Sela was all Crosby, and I think the producers originally went with it, because it was riding on the success of a popular episode. I think after a few episodes, the producers didn't know what to do with Sela, and that was that. If you want to get technical, Crosby "technically" appeared in 5 of 7 seasons.

S1: main cast (Tasha Yar)
S3: "Yesterday's Enterprise" (alt-timeline Tasha)
S4: "The Mine's Eye" and "Redemption, Part I" (Sela)
S5: "Redemption, Part II" and "Unification, Part II"(Sela)
S7 "All Good Things" (Tasha in the past)

 

[A Ruffian]

I think Tasha was killed off, because they weren't expecting Crosby back, and because a transfer would basically mean a demotion, and it wouldn't make sense. Sela was all Crosby, and I think the producers originally went with it, because it was riding on the success of a popular episode. I think after a few episodes, the producers didn't know what to do with Sela, and that was that.

They probably weren’t expecting Crosby back.
In Making It So (biography of Patrick Stewart), he said it was due to Crosby not being happy with her role. That’s from what I found, so…

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

They probably weren’t expecting Crosby back.
In Making It So (biography of Patrick Stewart), he said it was due to Crosby not being happy with her role. That’s from what I found, so…

This is what Crosby has said herself in interviews. She felt the cast was too large and the sets were overwhelming, and she just didn't feel like she had much of a role on the show beyond standing on the bridge and doing security stuff.

 

[A Ruffian]

This is what Crosby has said herself in interviews. She felt the cast was too large and the sets were overwhelming, and she just didn't feel like she had much of a role on the show beyond standing on the bridge and doing security stuff.

Oh, thanks for confirming it for me.

 

[Dukhat]

Dear friend, unfortunately you have got it all wrong.

I do read and listen to what other people say or write and in most cases, I respect their opinions even if they don't agree with me. That includes you too. I have no conflict with you and I'm not out to create conflicts either.

The conflicts I've been involved in have been because some people have tried to force their opinions on me and tried to force me to change my mind about different issues. Not to mention that they have made it personal and attacked me personally and that is something I just can't tolerate.

There are things I simply can't accept and in those situations I stand up and fight for what I think is right, no matter what. It doen't have to be about Star Trek, it's the same about "real life" experiences where I do have an opinion and stand up for it.

But it won't have to deteriate to bickering. I have had and still has many debates on this forum where I have had and still has very cordial and interesting debates with people who don't exactly share my views but are ready to at least accept that I have those views and discuss the issue as such.

It's not about the issue itself, it's how it is discussed that matters.

Sorry, I'm still confused. Because when I said this:

"In all seriousness, I never felt that 'Fury' was insulting. But that's because I don't have an irrational attachment to a fictional character."

You replied with this:

"Irrational? Not at all! I would call it logic and honest. I think that the s**t episode in season six which was made to destroy Kes was crappy and insulting and I will continue to stand up for that. What you think about it is of no concern of mine." (emphasis added.)

Now, could saying that "I don't have an irrational attachment to a fictional character' be construed as a personal attack? Possibly. But that's not how I meant it. Rather, I was pointing out that, yet again, you are entitled to your opinion that the person we saw in Fury was not actually Kes, even though the evidence for her being Kes is 100% accurate, and the writers' intent was not to 'destroy' the character, and that perhaps you are emotionally compromised to those facts because of some affinity for this character that seems a little off to me. And I think I've been quite civil in my discussion of this topic. But replying that 'what you think about it is no concern of mine' effectively negates everything you wrote above. Hence, my continued confusion over the matter.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

What do you think happened to Sela after "Unification II?"

 

[Dukhat]

After two failed military operations that she was in charge of, she was probably executed. That, or she now works at the Romulan equivalent of Red Lobster.