Spoilers Section 31 General Discussion Thread

[fireproof78]

Great! Love it when Trek breaks free of the mold and tries to give us something different. It could be great, or it could be trash. The fact I don't know what to expect is what is getting me excited.

Finally. Something unpredictable.

Star Trek could use something unpredictable, irreverent. Not always safe or familiar.

 

[Daedalus]

Well, I don't know if it will be that unpredictable, but it won't be studying gaseous anomalies or charting nebulae. That seems to be the gist of the article.

I think we all knew this.

 

[Jayson1]

The trailer makes it look like they aren't even trying to pretend it is a Trek show or I guess movie in this case. It really is giving off "Borderlands" vibes. Which seems to be a bad way to go. I mean if you doing Section 31 why not just do James Bond in space instead of looking like a cartoon.

 

[Cox of Seagulls]

Tinker Tailor Solider Spy in space would be amazing. The real ugliness and intrigue of espionage.

 

[fireproof78]

The trailer makes it look like they aren't even trying to pretend it is a Trek show or I guess movie in this case. It really is giving off "Borderlands" vibes. Which seems to be a bad way to go. I mean if you doing Section 31 why not just do James Bond in space instead of looking like a cartoon.

It is a Trek show.

Just different than what came before. It won't "feel" like Trek, which is the whole point. Going in to it demanding the right feels when they say it's going to be different is setting up for disappointment.

 

[Yistaan]

Plot twist -- Mirror Georgiou ended up in the late 24th century, not the early 24th century. After the Dominion War, Julian Bashir posted everything he knew about Section 31 on all subspace channels. Reeling from the public backlash, Section 31 produced a propaganda film starring Mirror Georgiou to try to bolster support, and this is that film. They even had the audacity to hire a chameloid actor to star in the film to say, "See, we don't hate all shapeshifters even though we tried to wipe them out, we have a token shapeshifter right here!"

 

[Tuskin38]

Rob actually said 'Lost Era'. He knows his stuff.

I read elsewhere his favourite series is TNG.

 

[trekfan_1]

I just hope we don't see every Joe schmo starfleet officer mention Section 31 in every day small talk like they are a popular rock band.

The fact that the director is comparing 31 to the (officially recognized ) real life CIA is not promising.

I want 31 to be more like the Zhat Vash ...but we are probably gonna get Tal Shiar/CIA/"kick as" Ninjas instead.

 

[Jayson1]

I just hope we don't see every Joe schmo starfleet officer mention Section 31 in every day small talk like they are a popular rock band.

The fact that the director is comparing 31 to the (officially recognized ) real life CIA is not promising.

I want 31 to be more like the Zhat Vash ...but we are probably gonna get Tal Shiar/CIA/"kick as" Ninjas instead.

We kind of already went down that angle with Section 31 in "Discovery" and while it wasn't as bad a little bit in "Enterprise." At least Archer was kind of clueless about them when he found out Reed worked for them in the past.

 

[Char Kais]

This director is total nuts.

Not only does he (like all NuTrek writers/directors) not get what Section 31 is, or seems to understand the real CIA and Pentagon (DoD) and their relationship, he then starts to talk about crazy UFO shit.

WTF? David Grusch? Luis Elizondo? What's next? Ancient Aliens? Skinwalker Ranch?

 

[Daedalus]

CIA? I'd have thought Federation security would've been a better comparison to that organisation. Like the security officer effectively spying on McCoy in TSFS, making sure the Genesis planet is kept as classified as possible.

To me, Section 31 is like Majestic-12 from Dark Skies or the Syndicate from X-Files. Illuminati comes to mind too. This spooky thing that nobody is supposed to know about.

 

[trekfan_1]

Either their clueless or it's a soft retcon ( more likely). Which Discovery and Picard sort of done already but IMO there's enough grey area that it would still work if the 31 movie leaned more to DS9' s Section 31.

If so I wish the showrunners simply went clean and admitted they changed it for creative reasons. Having them more mustache twirly and "kick ass" gives them more "zip " from a marketing perspective. It's definitely their perogative to do so. And before anyone says Section 31 can change/operate differently in different eras....yes true. But IMO Section 31 works best in their super secretative profile

 

[fireproof78]

Either their clueless or it's a soft retcon ( more likely). Which Discovery and Picard sort of done already but IMO there's enough grey area that it would still work if the 31 movie leaned more to DS9' s Section 31.

If so I wish the showrunners simply went clean and admitted they changed it for creative reasons. Having them more mustache twirly and "kick ass" gives them more "zip " from a marketing perspective. It's definitely their perogative to do so. And before anyone says Section 31 can change/operate differently in different eras....yes true. But IMO Section 31 works best in their super secretative profile

Section 31 is ambiguous enough. Sisko and company are not familiar with it, but Sisko also says that Starfleet Command neither confirmed nor denied it, and Admiral Ross was open about consorting with them. I think is plenty of gray area, and I am also highly optimistic that they will suffer setbacks and losses to move towards the secretive profile.

Special access only programs and black ops are common elements in Star Trek. Kirk and Spock go on one, Picard and Worf go on one, Sisko and company go all Klingon. Section 31 fits that bill better than random officers. Then it becomes too much like JAG.

 

[trekfan_1]

Section 31 is ambiguous enough. Sisko and company are not familiar with it, but Sisko also says that Starfleet Command neither confirmed nor denied it, and Admiral Ross was open about consorting with them. I think is plenty of gray area, and I am also highly optimistic that they will suffer setbacks and losses to move towards the secretive profile.

Special access only programs and black ops are common elements in Star Trek. Kirk and Spock go on one, Picard and Worf go on one, Sisko and company go all Klingon. Section 31 fits that bill better than random officers. Then it becomes too much like JAG.

True but it would be odd for the United States to neither confirm or deny the existence of the CIA and that's the comparison the 31 movie director used ( 31=CIA). It's possible that's just a superficial analogy for interviewing purposes. We will see when the movie comes out.

 

[fireproof78]

True but it would be odd for the United States to neither confirm or deny the existence of the CIA and that's the comparison the 31 movie director used ( 31=CIA). It's possible that's just a superficial analogy for interviewing purposes. We will see when the movie comes out.

And Starfleet is like the NAVY except not. So, again, analogies are not 1 to 1.

Plus, the CIA has operations that are not known to the public. So, again, it might be more apropos than we might realize. Again, agree that we shall see.

 

[trekfan_1]

And Starfleet is like the NAVY except not. So, again, analogies are not 1 to 1.

Plus, the CIA has operations that are not known to the public. So, again, it might be more apropos than we might realize. Again, agree that we shall see.

And if Section 31 was the black ops deptnartment of the Federation"s 'Star Fleet then yeah but that's Starfleet Intelligence. You file reports with SI (likely under varying degrees of security clearance). You don't with S31 or atleast not with Starfleet. The whole point in "Inquisition" is making it clear they don't answer to anyone.

 

[fireproof78]

And if Section 31 was the black ops deptnartment of the Federation"s 'Star Fleet then yeah but that's Starfleet Intelligence. You file reports with SI. You don't with S31 or atleast not with Starfleet.

Ok, and? I don't follow.

It can be that SI and S31 are basically the split of the CIA-the public face, and the less public. They will always need a public front for funding and such.

Unless people prefer the MIB approach of Section 31. Or perhaps "The Agency" from the Invisible Man series.

 

[trekfan_1]

Ok, and? I don't follow.

It can be that SI and S31 are basically the split of the CIA-the public face, and the less public. They will always need a public front for funding and such.

Unless people prefer the MIB approach of Section 31. Or perhaps "The Agency" from the Invisible Man series.

Would have to ask Ira Steven Behr the creator of Section 31 but I think there's a reason it wasn't rolled out as simply a super supr secretative part of Starfleet Intelligence. What made them distinct is then being their own separate think tank that also takes action and their goals may be different than Starfleets Intelligence "s goals.

It would like if someone today starts a secret decentralized organization in the usa called "Patriot" and puts their own philosophy and radical interpretation on the US Patriots act. They wouldn't answer to the US government but claim to be protecting the United States as
a whole. That's how I've always seen Section 31 as

So you could conceivably have counteracting missions that put SI and Section 31 in conflict with eachother.

 

[fireproof78]

Would have to ask Ira Steven Behr the creator of Section 31 but I think there's a reason it wasn't rolled out as simply a super supr secretative part of Starfleet Intelligence. What made them distinct is then being their own separate think tank that also takes action and their goals may be different than Starfleets Intelligence "s goals.

It would like if someone today starts a secret organization in the usa called "Patriot" and puts their own philosophy and interpretation on the US Patriots act. They wouldn't answer to the US government. That's how I've always seen Section 31 as

So you could conceivably have counteracting missions that put SI and Section 31 in conflict with eachother.

I mean, the US Intelligence apparatus has like 18 different agencies, sometimes in conflict with each other. There are a wide variety of reasons why Section 31 works for me as both a little more public and a secret agency. In one of the Shatner novels he had an organization that was public in terms of being known, but it was a total black ops organization, who's role was to address threats despite having the most innocuous description of the agency.

What makes Section 31 interesting to me is that we don't always know with them. I like the ambiguity. Do they serve the Federation's interests, their own, or a weird mash up of the two. I find that deeply fascinating because often times there is a drive to protect that leads to an odd sense of priorities.

 

[trekfan_1]

I mean, the US Intelligence apparatus has like 18 different agencies, sometimes in conflict with each other. There are a wide variety of reasons why Section 31 works for me as both a little more public and a secret agency. In one of the Shatner novels he had an organization that was public in terms of being known, but it was a total black ops organization, who's role was to address threats despite having the most innocuous description of the agency.

What makes Section 31 interesting to me is that we don't always know with them. I like the ambiguity. Do they serve the Federation's interests, their own, or a weird mash up of the two. I find that deeply fascinating because often times there is a drive to protect that leads to an odd sense of priorities.

That's fair. But for me I rather not have Section 31 be like just one of 18, ( I.e many) officially recognized agencies out there . The shadowy aspects and them being their own judge, jury and executioner and independent to Starfleet as we know them, is what's make them interesting to me. To me, having them as simply a splinter group of SI or rival recognized agency, dilutes and weakens the orginal concept of Section 31.