The Klingons destroyed the USS Farragut. That right there was an act of war.
What ships SHOULD they have used in the Dominion War?
- Thread starter Arpy
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The Klingons destroyed the USS Farragut. That right there was an act of war.
And yet there weren’t fleets of ships throwing themselves at each other and Sisko agonizing over casualty reports. Not an all out war. Hell, we’re technically still at war with North Korea, and yet…
Huh? There was a three-month period between seasons 4 & 5 where the Klingon war was happening. How do you know that what you describe wasn’t happening then?
EDIT: Correction. There was a brief period after the invasion of Archanis when the Klingons committed their full force to prosecute the war, and which saw Starfleet strain to slow them down. It’s unclear how many ships were destroyed in this period but some were and others were badly damaged (eg the Armstrong and the Drake). This is when Sisko exposed the Changeling at Ty’Gokor and a cease fire was established. Later conflict didn’t reach this level again. Then came a full treaty.
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That's the only ship that is reported destroyed during the whole conflict. An act of war perhaps, but not necessarily one Starfleet was eager to accept and respond in kind. Throughout the conflict Starfleet was operating purely defensively as far as we see, wanting to avoid escalation.
There was a ceasefire in place at the time of the Farragut's loss, but we know that Gowron had always struggled to assert his authority.
It is not impossible that the Ajilon Prime attack was the action of a rogue sector commander looking for glory, as with Kruge destroying the Grissom a century earlier.
We, also, know that the USS Tecumseh and the USS Rutledge engaged in action against the Klingons during that time. I am thinking that the entirety of the Federation-Klingon War of 2372-73 was just a relatively minor border skirmish mostly in the Archanis Sector.
That's my impression too. I'm sure there were a number of needlessly bloody engagements for both sides, but Sisko's foiling of the Martok Changeling's plan to have him assassinate Gowron fortunately prevented full-scale war.
I suspect there were also a large number of Klingons who weren't particularly interested in fighting the Federation, especially given their focus on Cardassia.
I suspect there were also a large number of Klingons who weren't particularly interested in fighting the Federation, especially given their focus on Cardassia.
^ I mean that’s a spectacular way to get crushed. It’s why the Romulans never attacked the Federation-Klingon alliance post Khitomer. The Cardassians weren’t on the same level but the principle holds and they all knew the Dominion was in the wings.
Plus you had decades of peace with the Federation and a strong alliance. Most young warriors never knew the Federation as anything but allies. And ones against their most caustic foe the Romulans.
Plus you had decades of peace with the Federation and a strong alliance. Most young warriors never knew the Federation as anything but allies. And ones against their most caustic foe the Romulans.
I would consider the Klingons sending light forces into Archanis Sector compared to their main thrust into Cardassian Space, and likely keeping a sizable force on the Romulan Border (because you know, Romulans). All while increasing the numbers of ships they have on the rest of the Federation border. Starfleet isn't looking to expand into Klingon space, so they would only send forces to contain them in Archanis Sector, and make attempts to push them out when not under a cease fire. But there will still be a number of starships damaged or destroyed fighting the Klingons for a year. Even if all you throw at them are older starships. Combined with the speculated 300 starship fleet sent to engage the Borg in they Typhon Sector, you will have a significant loss of ships and personnel right before the Dominion War begins. Followed by roughly six months of horrible losses during said war with presumably hundreds of starships lost. So, by Operation Return Starfleet is operating with likely the loss of two or more fleet equivalents, and probably at least a fleets worth of starships in for repairs.
Piggybacking off this thread, with a related question for some fiction I’m writing: what ships would you assign to newly minted Captains at the beginning of the war? I’m particularly thinking of ships best suited as escorts for an Excelsior battle group, made up of the Hood and the Repulse.
I’m tempted to say Miranda class given their similar age, but also I know that they were cannon fodder by this point
I’m tempted to say Miranda class given their similar age, but also I know that they were cannon fodder by this point
NATO was founded in 1949. Can an alliance exist long enough to become a tradition?
There are plenty of people who have grown up with NATO as the default alliance.
While it can be speculated that there was still some tension between the Federation and the Klingon Empire for the first 50 years or so of the Khitomer Accords, after the sacrifice of the USS Enterprise-C, there had been more that 25 years of peace and direct alliance between the two powers. So, there have been multiple generations of Klingons that had not lived under the constant idea of the Federation as the enemy.
There was always a faction of Klingons that resented the Federation and thought they had made Empire weak - the Duras supporters during the Civil War. Presumably the descendants of the Chang coup attempt.
Clearly there were also still underlying tensions in border areas - such as Krios (The Mind's Eye) and Archanis.
Conflict with the UFP was not Gowron's intention, but there were clear simmering grievances for the Martok Changeling to exploit.
Clearly there were also still underlying tensions in border areas - such as Krios (The Mind's Eye) and Archanis.
Conflict with the UFP was not Gowron's intention, but there were clear simmering grievances for the Martok Changeling to exploit.
Unlike modern day Earth, those in Texas, Scotland, & Quebec can't just take the country and break-off on their own.
But in the the future, when there are countless planets to settle, those people can pack up their followers, get equipment, and move to a new Star System and start their own mini colony / empire.
Those who supported the "Old Ways", the warring ways within the Klingon Faction can easily just up and move out.
We saw Klingons who diverged so far, that they decided to venture out & ended up in the Delta Quadrant.
There could be others, same with those who support the old Imperial Romulan ways that didn't agree to the "Romulan Free State" after the Hobus Super Nova event.
Yeah one ship with a crew less than Voyager’s. Even if there are others these are fringe movements. There are “colonies” of people today walking amongst us in cults and as “sovereign citizens” but these are unfortunates and they are few. I don’t doubt there are Romulan-friendly Klingons—that’s how “Redemption” happened. But note also how many more unfriendlies there were that the moment the deception was revealed the warbirds turned around. Fringe elements make for good stories but it takes more than that to succeed.
Most of those "Fringe Elements" in modern society are surrounded by members of 'Modern Society' with no where to escape to.
In the future, they can easily move out of main stream society and start their own colony, over time, it can grow into it's own civilization that becomes a dangerous force.
Years, decades, or even centuries down the line. The same is so for fringe elements in our societies via the political process.
