What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?

[cooleddie74]

The Wisp beings from "The Crossing(ENT)" were also powerful life forms, and the first official noncorporeal life encountered by Starfleet. So powerful they were just wispy, gas-like bundles of intelligence but could construct a monstrous spaceship that swallowed the NX-01 whole.

 

[Citiprime]

I know for years the writers and producers who made Voyager joked that they felt "Threshold" (aka the Warp 10 Salamander episode where Paris "evolves" into a giant salamander and has salamander babies with Janeway) shouldn't be considered canon. Although, after the appearance in Lower Decks, they're definitely canon.

But even the people making these shows have the ability sometimes to reflect and realize there's a line where things were too absurd. And since the variations in tones between the series is a thing, that line is going to be subjective.

There's probably a better version of "Spock's Brain" that could be done that wouldn't feel so ... cringe, but at the same time that episode is also "so bad it's good" for a lot of fans who just go with it. It's not a boring slog, which other episodes are guilty of being.

 

[oberth]

I still think the best way to have dealt with it, and also would have helped people like me accept "visual retcons" would have been to have Dorn look like a TOS Klingon from the moment they got into the 23rd century until the moment they left, without anyone saying ONE DAMN WORD.

this is a great idea, but [fill in nonsensical question to taste]

i don't believe for a second that it would have triggered less dancing around the they-murdered-trek tree

Bond's military service is that he served in the Royal Navy and made the rank of Commander. Connery's character in The Rock meanwhile served in the Royal Army, got into the SAS and made the rank of Captain.

emphasis mine

this is definately a paralell universe as there isn't (and never was) a royal army (there was a royalist army but that's besides the point) - it's the british army

British Army - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Or (in my opinion) alternate realities, SNW especially shows more advanced technology than TOS. Change some names and SNW could have easily been set after the TOS movies.

i can't imagine any 21st century show that doesn't use more advanced tech than tos and i doubt anybody but a hardcore canonist would accept that if a show did - the times of radio tubes are over

Bond would have to have been SAS himself, which he most certainly is not.

as a navy man he'd been sbs

Special Boat Service - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[at Quark's]

I know for years the writers and producers who made Voyager joked that they felt "Threshold" (aka the Warp 10 Salamander episode where Paris "evolves" into a giant salamander and has salamander babies with Janeway) shouldn't be considered canon. Although, after the appearance in Lower Decks, they're definitely canon.

To me, any part of a televised episode is canon by definition. As such, it's never not been canon, and not even the owners of the franchise have the option to 'decanonize' it (in the sense I mean, of course). That would be like denying the Voyager episode was ever made and released in the first place.

At best, they can claim 'it never really happened' (i.e. 'we were looking in the mind Tom Paris's mind when he had a fever dream' or something like that.)

 

[oberth]

I interpret canon as 'is part of a televised episode'. As such, it's never not been canon, and not even the owners of the franchise have the option to 'decanonize' it (in the sense I mean, of course). That would be like denying the Voyager episode was ever made and released in the first place.

works with tatv - at least for me

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Miri isn't hated because it's absurd, it's hated because it's just horrible.

Is it? It’s been a long long while since I’ve seen it but IIRC I quite liked it.

Not meaning to argue… but why is it horrible? Genuinely curious.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Picard - Revealed that the transporter system stores DNA information that is common within each particular species to simplify processing. What? All this time I thought the transporter actually moved people, every atom of who they are returned to its original place, but now it turns out it takes massive shortcuts. This is legit horrifying, I hate this!

After the horrible abuse by the Borg to subvert the Young, I think they'll undo that little shortcut.
So what if you save a bit on memory, it's a HUGE vulnerability when abused and proven to be viable.

It's basically a huge OpSec flaw that can be used against you.

 

[Tomalak]

Is it? It’s been a long long while since I’ve seen it but IIRC I quite liked it.

Not meaning to argue… but why is it horrible? Genuinely curious.

Yeah, Miri is a good episode. Maybe some people hate children.

 

[oberth]

Is it? It’s been a long long while since I’ve seen it but IIRC I quite liked it.

Not meaning to argue… but why is it horrible? Genuinely curious.

Yeah, Miri is a good episode. Maybe some people hate children.

when i first saw it on german tv in the '70s i thought it was horrible - really horrible. as i have not seen it since (it's on my avoid-at-any-cost-list* when binging tos) i'm not really entitled to an opinion

---

* spock's brain heads that list

 

[Tomalak]

when i first saw it on german tv in the '70s i thought it was horrible - really horrible. as i have not seen it since (it's on my avoid-at-any-cost-list* when binging tos) i'm not really entitled to an opinion

---

* spock's brain heads that list

Meh, watch them both again, what’s the worst that can happen?

 

[oberth]

Meh, watch them both again, what’s the worst that can happen?

i might need to have my carpet chemically cleaned

 

[cooleddie74]

"Miri" isn't outstanding television, even by Trek standards. But it's preferable to "The Mark of Gideon" or "And the Children Shall Lead" any day of the week.

 

[oberth]

"Miri" isn't outstanding television, even by Trek standards. But it's preferable to "The Mark of Gideon" or "And the Children Shall Lead" any day of the week.

they are all bad, but then in my book rougly half of all episodes in nearly any given trek show are below the line - a show where that's not the case sports jim kirk and odo.

 

[at Quark's]

Occurred to me I'd never even seen the episode, so I'm watching it now (roughly halfway).

First thoughts:

- So these children are 300 years old, apparently don't work, but still have food, and their clothes look OK (a bit shabby, but not worn out, even after 300 years of wear). I'd want a set of those, too.
- Do we ever get an explanation as why this literally is "earth 2"? (even down to the same continent shapes?)

Other than that, not too bad up till now. Certainly not stellar Trek, but reasonably entertaining.

EDIT: ok, so they do touch the food problem in the 2nd half. Still, mighty impressive that the food they had lasted them for 300 years (and didn't spoil).

Also, the Kirk - Miri interaction could be interpreted as a bit creepy but I'll buy such overtones weren't intended in the 60's.

 

[Farscape One]

I think the biggest issue with "MIRI" is the fact a duplicate Earth is completely forgotten after the beginning.

Such a thing has happened later in the franchise... like the Dyson Sphere in TNG's "Relics", but at least the Dyson Sphere was central to the episode. And usually with other major things, it's still pretty central to the episode.

But an exact copy of Earth should have been raised some more questions in the episode. It was literally just a gimmick to hook people to watch the rest of the episode.

 

[oberth]

I think the biggest issue with "MIRI" is the fact a duplicate Earth is completely forgotten after the beginning.

Such a thing has happened later in the franchise... like the Dyson Sphere in TNG's "Relics", but at least the Dyson Sphere was central to the episode. And usually with other major things, it's still pretty central to the episode.

But an exact copy of Earth should have been raised some more questions in the episode. It was literally just a gimmick to hook people to watch the rest of the episode.

i don't think that's comparable - in my headcanon the federation sent 'batallions' of scientists to check out that dyson sphere (off-screen obviously) but a duplicate earth needs at least a line on-screen about sending those 'batallions'

... and that doesn't take into account that duplicate earth is virtually impossible

 

[at Quark's]

^also, it occurs to me that those 'earth 2 scientists' almost succeeded. Their goal was, after all, to slow aging to 'only a month for every 100 years'. Seems they actually achieved that with the kids, the only hitch being that after puberty the virus (or whatever it was) became lethal. But it certainly sounds like a technique that more advanced 23rd century medicine could possibly perfect. Yet another (near) immortality recipe we never hear anything from again.

 

[Tomalak]

The Earth 2 thing was a holdover from Roddenberry's original "parallel worlds" pitch that the ship would visit various other Earths in order to save on budget.

Remnants of this crop up in other TOS episodes - planet of the Romans, planet of gangsters, planet of Nazis, Greek Gods, The Omega Glory.

But Miri is the only episode where it's literally a copy of Earth.

Fandom always speculated it was the work of the Preservers, and indeed the Reeves-Stevenses used that in some of the Shatnerverse books.

 

[at Quark's]

But Miri is the only episode where it's literally a copy of Earth.

And it doesn't make the slightest difference to the story, which would've worked just as well had it simply been another one of those 'parallel worlds'.

 

[Farscape One]

i don't think that's comparable - in my headcanon the federation sent 'batallions' of scientists to check out that dyson sphere (off-screen obviously) but a duplicate earth needs at least a line on-screen about sending those 'batallions'

... and that doesn't take into account that duplicate earth is virtually impossible

I'm sure the Federation sent people to Miri's world afterward. (Kirk also left some people on the planet to help the kids.)

But the duplicate Earth being a... well, duplicate should have at least been mentioned at the end. Or even in the middle