What has the new series done to ruin Star Trek this time?

[Citiprime]

According to one episode of DS9 the Eugenics Wars happened around the year 2173. And in early ENT Archer grew up around San Francisco - until later episodes had him growing up in New York State.

The writer of that episode of DS9, Ron Moore, has said it was a screw up.

MOORE: "This is my personal screw-up. When I was writing that speech, I was thinking about Khan and somehow his dialog from 'Wrath' started floating through my brain: On Earth... 200 years ago... I was a Prince... The number 200 just stuck in my head and I put it in the script without making the necessary adjustment for the fact that Wrath took place almost a hundred years prior to Dr. Bashir. I wrote it, I get the blame."​

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Same way Wrath of Khan fits with every other Trek series that changed the date of the Eugenics Wars. If you need to make up some kinda head canon that it was changed by the temporal cold war or something, go right ahead.

Fine. Then the appearance of the USS New Jersey in Picard season 3 means all of this mess doesn't exist, and by that point in the 25th century it was corrected to the TOS timeline, if we go with the idea that everything is mutable and the continuity can be whatever we want to believe it to be.

 

[HotRod]

Fine. Then the appearance of the USS New Jersey in Picard season 3 means all of this mess doesn't exist, and by that point in the 25th century it was corrected to the TOS timeline, if we go with the idea that everything is mutable and the continuity can be whatever we want to believe it to be.

 

[Citiprime]

You can rub your head all you want. If you want a multiple choice canon that can be whatever you want it to be at any given moment based on whatever whims, then you have to live with all possible consequences and permutations of that.

 

[fireproof78]

Fine. Then the appearance of the USS New Jersey in Picard season 3 means all of this mess doesn't exist, and by that point in the 25th century it was corrected to the TOS timeline, if we go with the idea that everything is mutable and the continuity can be whatever we want to believe it to be.

Go for it.

Nothing wrong with it.

 

[1001001]

You can rub your head all you want. If you want a multiple choice canon that can be whatever you want it to be at any given moment based on whatever whims, then you have to live with all possible consequences and permutations of that.

Right, because there’s no middle ground.

Either it’s exactly like what came before (visually and all) or it’s total chaos where anything goes.

 

[Citiprime]

Right, because there’s no middle ground.

Either it’s exactly like what came before (visually and all) or it’s total chaos where anything goes.

Or ... we mold it to whatever you want it to be because you have to fill it with personal head cannon to cover over the differences, no matter how much the differences stand out, and make it into a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book where continuity and story progression have no meaning whatsoever.

 

[fireproof78]

Or ... we mold it to whatever you want it to be because you have to fill it with personal head cannon to cover over the differences, no matter how much the differences stand out, and make it into a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book where continuity and story progression have no meaning whatsoever.

Meaning is determined by the viewer. So, I can find meaning between Pike in the Cage and Pike in SNW and still connect them together.

The drapes changing color doesn't impact that meaning as much as people would insist it must.

This is all very black and white now and it really doesn't need to be.

 

[cooleddie74]

Mistake or not, the DS9 line appears on screen just like the "1992 through 1996" dates do in TOS and TWOK. Intent aside the final result is what matters the most, because we can't wait years for the episode or movie writer to fess up that they made an error.

If it's on screen it's both canon and it's subject to being changed over time.

Like Frasier Crane's dad. Dead on Cheers but alive in Frasier, and both sitcoms exist in the precise same in-universe continuity.

 

[BillJ]

Either it’s exactly like what came before (visually and all) or it’s total chaos where anything goes.

I'm not sure breaking it into multiple timelines, really represents chaos.

 

[fireproof78]

Mistake or not, the DS9 line appears on screen just like the "1992 through 1996" dates do in TOS and TWOK. Intent aside the final result is what matters the most, because we can't wait years for the episode or movie writer to fess up that they made an error.

If it's on screen it's both canon and it's subject to being changed over time.

Like Frasier Crane's dad. Dead on Cheers but alive in Frasier, and both sitcoms exist in the precise same in-universe continuity.

Indeed. It's funny how some things get excused away, i.e. early installment weirdness, or writer mistakes, but others are treated as wholesale ruination of the continuity. Note: not canon. That was a production team member's "mistake."

 

[BillJ]

Mistake or not, the DS9 line appears on screen just like the "1992 through 1996" dates do in TOS and TWOK. Intent aside the final result is what matters the most, because we can't wait years for the episode or movie writer to fess up that they made an error.

If I'm building something, I usually go with the exact measurements I'm given versus vague rounding.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sometimes they're just TV shows

 

[cooleddie74]

I'm a continuity maniac and even I know when to let things go and stop worrying too much.

 

[BillJ]

I'm a continuity maniac and even I know when to let things go and stop worrying too much.

What is "worrying too much"?

 

[Nerys Myk]

What is "worrying too much"?

"The button was red and now its blue!!!!!! My immersion is ruined!!!!!"

 

[cooleddie74]

I decide by my own metric.

Everyone else also needs to set their own. Short of everything changing for no explained reason and the ship suddenly being the size of a Dyson Sphere I'm close to being done with the fretting.

The fact that the new shows are at least trying to make everything flow together in one continuity wins a lot of points from me. I mean, we're getting both Sybok and Dr. Roger Korby.

Even the Berman Era didn't bother with them.

 

[BillJ]

"The button was red and now its blue!!!!!! My immersion is ruined!!!!!"

Not really sure I've seen anyone that has went to that point. I look at two properties, TOS and SNW, and they simply don't fit together for me. For a lot of reasons, that I've went over in the past.

People saying it is all one timeline doesn't dictate my enjoyment of the show, and me seeing it as multiple timelines shouldn't dictate anyone else's enjoyment of the show.

 

[cooleddie74]

I mean...would I have changed the Eugenics Wars from the 1990s to the 2030s or thereabouts? Hell no. It's a fictional universe anyways so in a made-up universe Khan can easily fit into the 1990s. But the decision was made and until it's again retconned (please don't, once is enough) I'm at peace.

 

[BillJ]

I mean, we're getting both Sybok and Dr. Roger Korby.

Even the Berman Era didn't bother with them.

Because both were generally uninteresting. They had the good sense to let them rest.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not really sure I've seen anyone that has went to that point. I look at two properties, TOS and SNW, and they simply don't fit together for me. For a lot of reasons, that I've went over in the past.

People saying it is all one timeline doesn't dictate my enjoyment of the show, and me seeing it as multiple timelines shouldn't dictate anyone else's enjoyment of the show.

Perfectly reasonable.