Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

[Mudd]

I honestly have to say I'm very interested to see how they pull off this RDJ/Doom thing, this is probably the most interest I've had in Marvel in some time

Same here.

Marvel has tried to expand the range of settings and character types and to diversify its casts quite a bit since Endgame. I've enjoyed a lot of those movies, thought some of them were not terribly good, but on the whole the franchise has not been as successful since they moved away from their "core" characters of the 1960s. Acquiring the rights to the X-Men may help them move forward, but somehow getting back to their beginnings with folks like the FF and DD is the most promising thing they've done in a while.

 

[JD]

They might, if the way they got RDJ back was by offering him the chance to challenge himself and play a totally different character. Most actors don't like just doing the same unvarying thing forever. They like to take on new challenges and exercise their craft. I'd imagine RDJ walked away from Stark because he felt he'd done all he could with the role. So I'm not sure just coming back to do a slight variation on the same role would appeal to him. Making himself unrecognizable, creating a totally new character that isn't supposed to be a variant of Tony Stark in-universe, would be a more interesting challenge, and seems more likely to appeal to a performer of his talent.

I think you might have misunderstood me, I wasn't talking about him playing Tony Stark again, I was just saying that I can't imagine them passing up the chance to have the other character reacting to the fact that he looks like Tony. Doom can be a totally different character personality wise, but I find it very likely that they cast RDJ specifically because they want him to look like Tony Stark. I guess they might have cast him to do it as a voice role where he'll change his voice to not sound like Tony, but also find it unlike that they would spend the huge money it took to bring him back, and made this huge announcement, and don't plan on showing his face at some point. It's also worth considering that the whole Multiverse Saga has focused a lot on variants, so it would fit in with that concept to have the Big Bad end up being a variant of a hero, and it adds a whole extra layer by having him be a dead hero.

 

[Nerys Myk]

There is the possibility he won’t look like Tony. Wigs, makeup and all that. He’ll only look like Tony if the writers through the characters say he does.

 

[Turtletrekker]

There is the possibility he won’t look like Tony. Wigs, makeup and all that. He’ll only look like Tony if the writers through the characters say he does.

Hideously scarred.

 

[JD]

That could go that route, but even if he is scarred like in the comics, I have feeling they'll probably do it in a way that leaves at least somewhat recognizable.
I'm not saying it's absolutely impossible, I just find it unlikely that they won't leave him recognizable as a variant of Tony.
Like I keep saying, there's just way too much dramatic potential in having a Big Bad that looks like one of their most popular heroes, to pass it up.

 

[Christopher]

I think you might have misunderstood me, I wasn't talking about him playing Tony Stark again, I was just saying that I can't imagine them passing up the chance to have the other character reacting to the fact that he looks like Tony.

But that's my point, that he might not look like Tony. After all, in the comics, Doom almost never unmasks, and he's supposed to be hideously scarred. So we might not even see Downey's face.

Besides, have you seen Oppenheimer? Downey's Lewis Strauss looked and sounded extremely unlike Tony Stark. This is my whole point -- that good character actors can transform themselves almost unrecognizably. Even if we do see Doom's face, it won't necessarily look like Tony's face.

Not to mention that the same actor can play more than one role in a franchise without the resemblance being a plot point. It was never addressed why Sarek looked like the Romulan Commander from "Balance of Terror," or why Brunt, Weyoun, and Shran looked and sounded so similar.

Doom can be a totally different character personality wise, but I find it very likely that they cast RDJ specifically because they want him to look like Tony Stark. I guess they might have cast him to do it as a voice role where he'll change his voice to not sound like Tony, but also find it unlike that they would spend the huge money it took to bring him back, and made this huge announcement, and don't plan on showing his face at some point.

Did we ever actually see Josh Brolin's face as Thanos? No, just a digital construct that resembled it. And Andy Serkis became famous and in demand playing performance-capture characters that didn't have his face.

It could be that they brought him back for the name and voice recognition, but it could also be that they wanted a very skilled character actor, which Downey undoubtedly is, and a performer that they knew they could trust to be a reliable collaborator, which Downey has certainly shown himself to be. It's an injustice to the man to assume the only value he has is his ability to look like Tony Stark. He's so, so much more than that as a performer. Which is why I think he might want to change himself unrecognizably, like he did in Oppenheimer, Tropic Thunder, and other roles. Yeah, they were willing to shell out huge bucks to get him, but that gave him the clout to demand whatever he wanted from them, and if I were a character actor of his skill, I'd want the chance to really act and stretch myself rather than just rehash the past. If that's what he asked for, I can't imagine them saying no.

It's also worth considering that the whole Multiverse Saga has focused a lot on variants, so it would fit in with that concept to have the Big Bad end up being a variant of a hero, and it adds a whole extra layer by having him be a dead hero.

Which strikes me as a bizarre and terrible idea for introducing Victor Von Doom, a character who demands to have his own unique identity rather than be reduced to a subset of some other character. So I really hope that isn't what they're doing. Plus, given that they're playing up Doom to take the place of their scuttled plans for Kang, I'd think they'd want to avoid the whole "variant" business.

 

[JD]

But that's my point, that he might not look like Tony. After all, in the comics, Doom almost never unmasks, and he's supposed to be hideously scarred. So we might not even see Downey's face.

Besides, have you seen Oppenheimer? Downey's Lewis Strauss looked and sounded extremely unlike Tony Stark. This is my whole point -- that good character actors can transform themselves almost unrecognizably. Even if we do see Doom's face, it won't necessarily look like Tony's face.

Of course he's a great actor who can play other characters, and I'm sure his he'll give a great performance playing a very different character from Tony Stark, but I find it very hard to believe that they won't leave him recognizable as Tony Stark.

Not to mention that the same actor can play more than one role in a franchise without the resemblance being a plot point. It was never addressed why Sarek looked like the Romulan Commander from "Balance of Terror," or why Brunt, Weyoun, and Shran looked and sounded so similar.

Yes, but Mark Leonard and Jeffrey Combs were not the most popular actors in Star Trek.

Did we ever actually see Josh Brolin's face as Thanos? No, just a digital construct that resembled it. And Andy Serkis became famous and in demand playing performance-capture characters that didn't have his face.

Thanos might be mocap, but he was still pretty clearly recognizable as Josh Brolin in Infinity War and Endgame. And Andy Serkis was not really a big name actor when he was cast in those roles.

It could be that they brought him back for the name and voice recognition, but it could also be that they wanted a very skilled character actor, which Downey undoubtedly is, and a performer that they knew they could trust to be a reliable collaborator, which Downey has certainly shown himself to be. It's an injustice to the man to assume the only value he has is his ability to look like Tony Stark. He's so, so much more than that as a performer. Which is why I think he might want to change himself unrecognizably, like he did in Oppenheimer, Tropic Thunder, and other roles. Yeah, they were willing to shell out huge bucks to get him, but that gave him the clout to demand whatever he wanted from them, and if I were a character actor of his skill, I'd want the chance to really act and stretch myself rather than just rehash the past. If that's what he asked for, I can't imagine them saying no.

Yes, but if they just wanted a character actor with a recognize name and voice, there are plenty of other very popular choices they could have made. I find it very hard to believe that they didn't bring back RDJ specifically because he was Tony, and that they have a very good reason for doing that.

Which strikes me as a bizarre and terrible idea for introducing Victor Von Doom, a character who demands to have his own unique identity rather than be reduced to a subset of some other character.

I'm sure they're going to more with Doom than just make him a "subset" of Tony.

So I really hope that isn't what they're doing. Plus, given that they're playing up Doom to take the place of their scuttled plans for Kang, I'd think they'd want to avoid the whole "variant" business.

I'm thinking the opposite, that they're possibly shifting at least some of their variant ideas for Kang over to Doom. They've done a lot of work to develop the whole variant concept with Kang, I could see them salvage at least some of the those concepts to use for Doom too. Like I said before, the idea of variants has been a huge part of the Multiverse Saga so far, so it makes perfect sense that they'd make the big bad a variant of one of the 616 universe's biggest heroes.

 

[Frontis]

Looking forward to this...

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[Nerys Myk]

There used to be a comic book theory/rumor that Kang was Doom or a descendent of Doom.

 

[JD]

Anthony Mackie might have accidently revealed a pretty big spoiler.
https://www.ign.com/articles/it-sou...major-captain-america-brave-new-world-spoiler

During the cast interview with Entertainment Weekly, they asked him about how important The Incredible Hulk's events are to Brave New World, he talked "him" showing, and said it's not The Red Hulk, it's "the other one".

 

[Christopher]

Of course he's a great actor who can play other characters, and I'm sure his he'll give a great performance playing a very different character from Tony Stark, but I find it very hard to believe that they won't leave him recognizable as Tony Stark.

And you're not unreasonable to think that. I just think it's worth considering all possibilities instead of just one, since you never know for certain until it happens. I also don't want him to play a Stark variant, so I'm hoping they go a different route, and I'm suggesting reasons they conceivably might.

Yes, but if they just wanted a character actor with a recognize name and voice, there are plenty of other very popular choices they could have made.

But as I suggested already, the reasons why directors and producers cast actors are often about things the audience doesn't see but the filmmakers do -- not what an actor looks like or how they perform, but what they're like behind the scenes as coworkers and colleagues. Whether they're professional and reliable vs. flighty and inconsistent, whether they're good partners and team players vs. prima donnas or jerks to their co-stars and crew, etc. Those sorts of things are, if anything, even more important to filmmakers' hiring choices than the onscreen performance that the audience sees.

What I said before about Marvel's reason for bringing the Russo Brothers back may apply here too. If they're trying to regroup after some failed gambles, and if they're under a time crunch and can't afford delays, it's logical that they'd turn to collaborators they know and trust, people they have a long relationship with and can count on to do the work reliably without creating problems.

Yes, it could be that they want him back because he was Tony Stark. But what I'm trying to get across, what is sadly overlooked by a vast number of MCU fans, is that there is much, much more to Robert Downey Jr. than just Tony Stark. He is a brilliant, chameleonic, recently Oscar-winning character actor, and it's not out of the question that they simply want him because the role of Victor Von Doom demands a brilliant character actor.

I mean, for most of film history it's been normal for filmmakers to keep bringing back actors they knew and trusted to play different characters. Look how many different roles Bela Lugosi, Boris Karloff, Lon Chaney, Evelyn Ankers, Lionel Atwill, etc. played in the Universal Monsters films. Look how Joe Dante had a regular repertory company including the likes of Robert Picardo, Dick Miller, and William Schallert, or how Tim Burton cast Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter in nearly everything. It's not about any one role, it's about the working relationship with the actor, the director's knowledge that a given actor is someone they can rely on to do a good job and to understand the director's goals and wishes. After all, playing different roles is an actor's job. So an actor's skill and professionalism matter more than who the character is.

I'm sure they're going to more with Doom than just make him a "subset" of Tony.

Which is exactly why making him a Stark variant seems like a terrible idea that would just get in the way of doing Doom justice as a character. I can't see the value of that. I can see the value of letting a gifted character actor bury himself in a new role without reference to a previous one.

I'm thinking the opposite, that they're possibly shifting at least some of their variant ideas for Kang over to Doom. They've done a lot of work to develop the whole variant concept with Kang, I could see them salvage at least some of the those concepts to use for Doom too. Like I said before, the idea of variants has been a huge part of the Multiverse Saga so far, so it makes perfect sense that they'd make the big bad a variant of one of the 616 universe's biggest heroes.

Again, I concede that's possible. But I find it undesirable, because it doesn't do Doom justice to make him a pinch-hitter for another character's storyline. So I'm hoping they plan to do something different. I'm not assuming they will, just looking for reasons to hope.

 

[Christopher]

Looking forward to this...

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Uh, you know that's a fan-created fake trailer, right? I fell for a couple of those once.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Looking forward to this...

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This is fan made.

Ninja'd by @Christopher

Watching the Brave New World cast is fun, but I really have a hard time buying Harrison Ford as really being all that interested in "Red Hulk" and all this stuff. He's such an established persona, I really hope his Ross lives up to Sam Elliott and William Hurt.

And jeez, I would have just tried to get Sam Elliott back. But I love the CA movies, so the idea that this is more grounded like Winter Soldier is exciting. That is still my favorite MCU "solo" film.

 

[Jayson1]

That is fan made. Everyone knows Tom Cruise is going to be the next Iron Man, eventually. Somehow Iron Man will loose his ability to fly but make up for it with great running speed.

 

[Frontis]

Uh, you know that's a fan-created fake trailer, right? I fell for a couple of those once.

Oh ok, thank you for telling me.

 

[Jayson1]

I fall for them a lot as well. Though I have learned to best thing to do is go read the comment section real quick. If it is fake someone will say it and it can save time on watching a fake trailer.

 

[JD]

And you're not unreasonable to think that. I just think it's worth considering all possibilities instead of just one, since you never know for certain until it happens. I also don't want him to play a Stark variant, so I'm hoping they go a different route, and I'm suggesting reasons they conceivably might.




But as I suggested already, the reasons why directors and producers cast actors are often about things the audience doesn't see but the filmmakers do -- not what an actor looks like or how they perform, but what they're like behind the scenes as coworkers and colleagues. Whether they're professional and reliable vs. flighty and inconsistent, whether they're good partners and team players vs. prima donnas or jerks to their co-stars and crew, etc. Those sorts of things are, if anything, even more important to filmmakers' hiring choices than the onscreen performance that the audience sees.

What I said before about Marvel's reason for bringing the Russo Brothers back may apply here too. If they're trying to regroup after some failed gambles, and if they're under a time crunch and can't afford delays, it's logical that they'd turn to collaborators they know and trust, people they have a long relationship with and can count on to do the work reliably without creating problems.

Yes, it could be that they want him back because he was Tony Stark. But what I'm trying to get across, what is sadly overlooked by a vast number of MCU fans, is that there is much, much more to Robert Downey Jr. than just Tony Stark. He is a brilliant, chameleonic, recently Oscar-winning character actor, and it's not out of the question that they simply want him because the role of Victor Von Doom demands a brilliant character actor.

I mean, for most of film history it's been normal for filmmakers to keep bringing back actors they knew and trusted to play different characters. Look how many different roles Bela Lugosi, Boris Karloff, Lon Chaney, Evelyn Ankers, Lionel Atwill, etc. played in the Universal Monsters films. Look how Joe Dante had a regular repertory company including the likes of Robert Picardo, Dick Miller, and William Schallert, or how Tim Burton cast Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter in nearly everything. It's not about any one role, it's about the working relationship with the actor, the director's knowledge that a given actor is someone they can rely on to do a good job and to understand the director's goals and wishes. After all, playing different roles is an actor's job. So an actor's skill and professionalism matter more than who the character is.



Which is exactly why making him a Stark variant seems like a terrible idea that would just get in the way of doing Doom justice as a character. I can't see the value of that. I can see the value of letting a gifted character actor bury himself in a new role without reference to a previous one.



Again, I concede that's possible. But I find it undesirable, because it doesn't do Doom justice to make him a pinch-hitter for another character's storyline. So I'm hoping they plan to do something different. I'm not assuming they will, just looking for reasons to hope.

After reading this post, it sounds like I might have misread your last as more argumentative than you meant. I read it as you telling me I was wrong, and they could only possibly be doing the things you said in your post.

 

[Nerys Myk]

If it’s not from the studio take it with a bag of salt.

Yes, I said bag.

 

[Christopher]

After reading this post, it sounds like I might have misread your last as more argumentative than you meant. I read it as you telling me I was wrong, and they could only possibly be doing the things you said in your post.

It would be meaningless to say anything is "wrong" or "right" when we only have a few initial fragments of information. The only reasonable thing to do in such a case is to be open to every possibility. Proposing a second possibility is not rejecting the first, it's just adding it to the list. You should always assume that is my intention in any discussion about a future event where we have no idea what will actually happen.

 

[Morpheus 02]

After reading this post, it sounds like I might have misread your last as more argumentative than you meant. I read it as you telling me I was wrong, and they could only possibly be doing the things you said in your post.

You probably read it correctly... but he's just doubling back so he doesn't sound as harsh as he did.