What is your personal head canon?

[evilchumlee]

Going back to some headcanon... although this is more of a "what if.." than a headcanon...

I've always been fascinated by the idea of Colonel Green. He's an "Eco-Terrorist", who is also concerned with genetic purity and wants to eliminate those exposed to radiation. He seems to be a major player not only in WW3 but also the aftermath of it all. He also seems very... American.

Since SNW now we know the Eugenics Wars and Second American Civil War were all kind of lumped into WW3.

I had a thought... what if the "Eastern Coalition" wasn't referring to "The East" in terms of Asia, but the Eastern United States, lead by Colonel Green? Perhaps his Anti-Augment forces seized control of some of the nation and went on some crazed crusade for genetic purity.

 

[Humanoid #77]

By looking into fate of Maltz, I just learned that he was portrayed by John Larroquette.

one of today's lucky 10,000 !

Since SNW now we know the Eugenics Wars and Second American Civil War were all kind of lumped into WW3.

Wait. What? Which episode? (I don't watch every SNW)

 

[B.J.]

What was established?

And how much is based on just one example?

To expand, there is a lot of assumptions built from just one example of a Gorn. We don't know this is Starfleet's first encounter and the Gorn clearly know Starfleet since they approach like a normal ship then set a trap for the Enterprise.

I watched Arena just the other day, and there's one line that stands out:

"Weaponless, I face the creature the Metrons called a Gorn. Large, reptilian. Like most humans, I seem to have an instinctive revulsion to reptiles."

If I was a perfectionist on all this, I'd have a hard time rectifying that with the multiple battles they're having with the Gorn in SNW, because obviously Kirk should know what a Gorn is. But personally, I take it all on a high level as viewed thru squinted eyes and don't let the relatively minor inconsistencies bother me.

 

[fireproof78]

I watched Arena just the other day, and there's one line that stands out:

"Weaponless, I face the creature the Metrons called a Gorn. Large, reptilian. Like most humans, I seem to have an instinctive revulsion to reptiles."

If I was a perfectionist on all this, I'd have a hard time rectifying that with the multiple battles they're having with the Gorn in SNW, because obviously Kirk should know what a Gorn is. But personally, I take it all on a high level as viewed thru squinted eyes and don't let the relatively minor inconsistencies bother me.

That is the only one sticking point that I have seen. The rest is completely manageable, especially given the fact that we only have one example of a Gorn in TOS. That's it. What else do we know?

 

[evilchumlee]

That is the only one sticking point that I have seen. The rest is completely manageable, especially given the fact that we only have one example of a Gorn in TOS. That's it. What else do we know?

Yes and no... even outside of the dialogue specifying Kirk didn't what a Gorn was, the entire plot of the episode really revolves around... Kirk not knowing a Gorn is or how to fight it...

...which is strange because about 5-6 years prior to that, the Enterprise had specific Anti-Gorn weaponry on board developed specifically for instances where one would have to fight the Gorn and, presumably, received some sort of training in fighting the Gorn...

I really wish SNW used Tholians in place of Gorn. They slot in much better.

 

[SG-17]

Vulcans are probably augments who won their Eugenics War.

 

[HotRod]

Yes and no... even outside of the dialogue specifying Kirk didn't what a Gorn was, the entire plot of the episode really revolves around... Kirk not knowing a Gorn is or how to fight it...

...which is strange because about 5-6 years prior to that, the Enterprise had specific Anti-Gorn weaponry on board developed specifically for instances where one would have to fight the Gorn and, presumably, received some sort of training in fighting the Gorn...

I really wish SNW used Tholians in place of Gorn. They slot in much better.

It's admittedly a little clunky, but if we go on the assumption that Kirk has never seen a Gorn, or that for any multitude of reasons, this Gorn looks different from other Gorn, it still can work.

We still don't know the conclusion to the Gorn arc on SNW. For all we know, they manage to open some level of dialogue and agree leave eachother alone. The whole thing is classified and the Gorn don't have any further contact with the Federation.

That is until years later, the Federation unknowingly set up camp in an area claimed by the Gorn. Who act aggressively towards the "Federation Invaders," and we get Arena.

As for the equipment stored onboard, only Pike knew about it as Captain and it stands to reason it was the same for Kirk. Not that it mattered anyway, it's not as if he had access to it.

With nothing more than a little creative thinking, it all generally works, and we get to flesh out and learn more about a classic Trek species.

Win-Win in my book.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk not knowing a Gorn is or how to fight it...

Or a version he wasn't brief on.

With nothing more than a little creative thinking, it all generally works, and we get to flesh out and learn more about a classic Trek species.

Exactly.

 

[evilchumlee]

It's admittedly a little clunky, but if we go on the assumption that Kirk has never seen a Gorn, or that for any multitude of reasons, this Gorn looks different from other Gorn, it still can work.

We still don't know the conclusion to the Gorn arc on SNW. For all we know, they manage to open some level of dialogue and agree leave eachother alone. The whole thing is classified and the Gorn don't have any further contact with the Federation.

With nothing more than a little creative thinking, it all generally works, and we get to flesh out and learn more about a classic Trek species.


Win-Win in my book.

I'm down for creative thinking and trying to make things work, but some of the newer entries require a fairly huge leap.

The whole "It's classified" thing is becoming too much of a crutch now to use stuff that shouldn't exist and then just go "whelp, classified now."

Although going with this, I can be comfortable excusing lines of dialogue from TOS, so i'll just ingnore the "what they call a Gorn" line.

I have a theory/hope that the Gorn storyline in SNW may give us a situation where the Gorn are something like xenomorphs and may take some genetic material from their host incubators... leading to a "race" of Gorn that do look much different than what we see in SNW, more humanoid Gorn who were borne out of humans. In that case, I can see Kirk not immediately realizing these are the Gorn that were such a hot-button issue a few years ago.

Vulcans are probably augments who won their Eugenics War.

I don't hate this. It does strike me as somewhat odd that the Romulans appear to lack the psychic abilities of the Vulcans.

We also only ever really hear the Vulcan side of the story when it comes to the Romulans leaving... it may have been less "they didn't want to adopt to the teachings of Surak and left" and more "The augment Vulcans were literally going to genocide all of the non-augments". The whole emotional suppression was an effort by Khan Surak to temper the "superior ability breed superior ambition" aspects that seem to be inherent in genetic engineering in Trek so that with a now-united world, they wouldn't tear themselves apart again.

On a tangent, running with this idea, later on the Vulcans aren't just trying to benevolently guide Earth into the stars... they're terrified of humans, who they watched create an augment race... and defeat them.

The flows in my general headcanon i've had forever that has at least a modicum of support from canon in that alot of the Federation members kind of just let Earth do what it wants and actively try to keep humans as happy as possible because... they're absolutely terrified of them. They know Earth is one bad day away from going Terran Empire/Confederation on the galaxy. They keep them warm and cozy and occupied with exploring space and stuff because if you take the comforts away from humans... they won't be stopped.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm down for creative thinking and trying to make things work, but some of the newer entries require a fairly huge leap.

That's par for the course for Star Trek for me. To me, it's always been huge leaps. Hell, the first episode I saw had ESP being real to the point that Mitchell could conjure items out of thin air. To me, the adjusting a line's meaning, or how a ship looks, is a much smaller thing than accepting human ESP.

 

[Daedalus]

I keep thinking of the Scarrans from Farscape when trying figuring out the reasons for the discrepancy. Some Scarrans were closer to humans in appearance, while others were nearly dinosaurian. They all amounted to a "dude/dudette in a suit", but you can bet your mivonks they'd use cgi in an imaginary revival to demonstrate a greater range of diversity.

Apart from that, we know very little about the SNW species beyond what we saw in Season 2. Season 3 could bring greater understanding, plus a recurrence of those sexy dresses they wore in TOS.

 

[fireproof78]

I keep thinking of the Scarrans from Farscape when trying figuring out the reasons for the discrepancy. Some Scarrans were closer to humans in appearance, while others were nearly dinosaurian. They all amounted to a "dude/dudette in a suit", but you can bet your mivonks they'd use cgi in an imaginary revival to demonstrate a greater range of diversity.

Yeah, I've thought of those as well, never mind some other Trek examples of lesser known aliens, like the Trill, who got a revamp when one became a main character on DS9.

I personally do not thinking, based on Arena alone, that we have enough data to say that SNW contradicts one way or the other. Spock notes that this area is largely unknown, but clearly the attacker knows Starfleet and Federation protocols enough to send out a fake signal and approach the colony in a way not to raise the alarm.

It also never shows the Gorn in any positive. They simply assert that Cestus III is their territory and that's good enough for jazz, I guess? Because no one questions it. That always struck me as absurd. "You crossed in to our territory; naturally, we killed everyone and lured more of you here because...we're on a killing streak and needed to use that multiplier for the points."

 

[Daedalus]

Yeah, I've thought of those as well, never mind some other Trek examples of lesser known aliens, like the Trill, who got a revamp when one became a main character on DS9.

I personally do not thinking, based on Arena alone, that we have enough data to say that SNW contradicts one way or the other. Spock notes that this area is largely unknown, but clearly the attacker knows Starfleet and Federation protocols enough to send out a fake signal and approach the colony in a way not to raise the alarm.

It also never shows the Gorn in any positive. They simply assert that Cestus III is their territory and that's good enough for jazz, I guess? Because no one questions it. That always struck me as absurd. "You crossed in to our territory; naturally, we killed everyone and lured more of you here because...we're on a killing streak and needed to use that multiplier for the points."

We now know that the Illyrians alter themselves to a greater extent that what we saw in Enterprise, just so they can fit in with various environments. I guess it's just a matter of waiting for a explanation, though I don't actually know of one for the Trill? It could be in beta-canon, somewhere.

Also, I feel like the Gorn space suit betrays what is probably a familiar Gorn shape already. Minus the tail added in post.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't think anyone seriously doubts the SNW Gorn are a huge retcon. It comes down to how much is too much. I just wish they weren't such a blatant Aliens/Predator rip-off, and wished Trek was more original. But personally I'm cool with the retcon, and have enjoyed their appearances.

You can always say it's the Temporal Wars... somehow. I mean, Khan is a Canadian child in 2024 now, rather than an adult tyrant in the early 90's.

 

[cooleddie74]

Hell, there are three different types of Klingons now in the 2250s and 2260s. The DSC look, TNG-style and TOS Augment Klingons. So I just look at the 2259 Gorn in SNW as Gorn who don't look like the ones in TOS.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think anyone seriously doubts the SNW Gorn are a huge retcon. It comes down to how much is too much.

I don't think it's not a huge retcon, but I'm going off what we actually knew from Arena.

To me, the short answer is "Not Much."

 

[Frontis]

The Gorn in SNW are and look so different, they just could have made them another species, give them another name.

 

[fireproof78]

The Gorn in SNW are and look so different, they just could have made them another species, give them another name.

So, should we forget that Enterprise had this?

Then there is TOS:

And SNW just adds kind of a blend of the two:

 

[HotRod]

The Gorn in SNW are and look so different, they just could have made them another species, give them another name.

They still look like a large, bipedal Lizard to me.

 

[evilchumlee]

They still look like a large, bipedal Lizard to me.

Yeah. The ENT version looks different... but I feel like it's "close" while being a "visual update" in the best way... it really tries to capture the essence and spirit of the TOS Gorn while looking more modern (early 2000's CGI aside.)

That being said, I don't particularly hate the new look of the Gorn in SNW. It's more about their portrayal. They look fine.

I am curious to see what happens with them going forward. What i've been theorizing is that the Gorn aren't actually as hostile as they appear in general. There's kind of two types of Gorn here, young Gorn and mature Gorn... the mature Gorn have arrived at the planet to essentially quarantine it. Their young can be driven into a madness with the urge to reproduce and the groups that do what these are doing are NOT condoned by the Gorn writ large.

The twist for me would be that the Gorn that gets killed stalking Chapel was actually out there in wreckage attempting to rescue her. All the people who were taken from the planet to the Gorn ship... were taken to provide them with medical care in an attemtp pt to save their lives.