What is your personal head canon?

[xenotaris]

Meh, not really. With a little creative thinking, it works perfectly fine.

If creative thinking you mean disregard everything TOS established about the Gorn and just accept all of SNW's blatant retcon.

TOS establishes that the Federation JUST encountered the Gorn. The Federation colonies unknowingly colonized Gorn space, so the Gorn feeling like their space had been invaded carried out the attacks in self-defense.

Kirk's Showdown with the Gorn Captain was established to be the first physical encounter the Federation had with the Gorn.

SNW retcons that the Gorn were already well known by the federation for decades and they attack human colonies because they are evil endoparasite space lizards.

 

[xenotaris]

So are we supposed to ignore the parts they contradict and just say "YEAH ITS TOTALLY CANON!"

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

So are we supposed to ignore the parts they contradict and just say "YEAH ITS TOTALLY CANON!"

I generally consider the most iconic and famous episode to have priority when stories blatantly contradict, unless something got firmly adopted by the franchise. So TNG's The Host got totally retconned by 7 seasons of DS9, throw that episode right into the trash. But until SNW's Gorn episodes get embraced by pop culture, TOS's Arena is the true story.

 

[Lord Garth]

This is truly Orwellian.

I gave my stance at the beginning. All the way back on May 19th, 2017.

 

[Shawnster]

Meh, not really. With a little creative thinking, it works perfectly fine.

In other words, if you router down the corners, a square peg will fit into a round hole.

I shouldn't have to use creative thinking to get x to fit y. That's the writer's job. If they want x to fit y, then it's their job to make it fit. If they don't want it to fit, that's fine. Just don't try to claim they fit when they don't.

 

[Lord Garth]

In regards to Ex Astris Scientia… That’s a hard no from me. They stray too far into fanatic territory for me and their dislike of DSC etc. is too agenda-led.

I've used Ex Astris Scientia as a resource since 1998. Dial-up modem days. Almost a full 20 years before DSC even came into the picture. It would take a lot more than my disagreeing with them about one series to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I also disagree with them about their episode ratings too. But I don't use Ex Astris to see what they think of Discovery or episodes of Star Trek in general. I'm there to look at their specs and their designs. As long as they keep those parts up-to-snuff, I don't care about what they think of stuff they don't specialize in.

 

[Daedalus]

Well, maybe one day we'll see the beefcake Gorn and XenoGorn on screen together, just to truly muck with our heads.

"We don't dissscusss it with outssssidersssss"

 

[Lord Garth]

Well, maybe one day we'll see the beefcake Gorn and XenoGorn on screen together, just to truly muck with our heads.

"We don't dissscusss it with outssssidersssss"

I'll watch Alien: Romulus instead. Where I can see actual Xenomorphs.

I loved Prometheus, I didn't like Covenant, and I'm hoping for a rebound with Romulus.

I liken the Alien movies to Star Trek:
TOS = Alien
TNG = Aliens
DS9 = Alien 3
VOY = Alien Resurrection
PIC = What would've been Neill Blomkamp's Alien 5

Kelvin = Alien vs. Predator

DSC = Prometheus
SNW = Covenant

That's the short version. I have my reasons for why I match them up like that, but I'm getting tired.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I've used Ex Astris Scientia as a resource since 1998. Dial-up modem days. Almost a full 20 years before DSC even came into the picture. It would take a lot more than my disagreeing with them about one series to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I also disagree with them about their episode ratings too. But I don't use Ex Astris to see what they think of Discovery or episodes of Star Trek in general. I'm there to look at their specs and their designs. As long as they keep those parts up-to-snuff, I don't care about what they think of stuff they don't specialize in.

Totally agreed. As far as the nuts and bolts of pretty much everything about Star Trek pre-Abrams, it’s a great resource.

And they do like Prodigy.

I just wouldn’t read an article about, as I said in this case, DSC. No babies were thrown out of any bathwater.

 

[HotRod]

If creative thinking you mean disregard everything TOS established about the Gorn and just accept all of SNW's blatant retcon.

No, I mean generally do what Trekkies have always done when things don't necessarily line up perfectly, which is often the case with Trek. We have to use our imaginations and make it work. It's not a new concept and is hardly unique to recent additions to the franchise.

TOS establishes that the Federation JUST encountered the Gorn. The Federation colonies unknowingly colonized Gorn space, so the Gorn feeling like their space had been invaded carried out the attacks in self-defense.

No. In the episode, they didn't know who was attacking them until they were told by a third party, at which point, no one says anything on the matter. Not one person has any real reaction one way or another to the word "Gorn."

Kirk's Showdown with the Gorn Captain was established to be the first physical encounter the Federation had with the Gorn.

No. Kirk says that the creature he's fighting is apparently a Gorn. One could easily take this as Kirk's first time getting a look at one, or that perhaps this Gorn looked different than he expected. One long considered explanation is that the Gorn Hegemony is made up of different species, which all call themselves Gorn. This could simply have been the first time Kirk had seen an adult without a tail. Again, a little creative thinking goes a long way.

SNW retcons that the Gorn were already well known by the federation for decades and they attack human colonies because they are evil endoparasite space lizards.

One word: Classified.

So are we supposed to ignore the parts they contradict and just say "YEAH ITS TOTALLY CANON!"

What's Kirk's middle initial? When did WWIII happen? When did Data graduate from the Academy? Shit gets ignored all the time.

In other words, if you router down the corners, a square peg will fit into a round hole.

We've been doing it for almost 60 years.

I shouldn't have to use creative thinking to get x to fit y. That's the writer's job. If they want x to fit y, then it's their job to make it fit. If they don't want it to fit, that's fine. Just don't try to claim they fit when they don't.

Overall, they've done a pretty damn good job. But sometimes, shit happens. It's hardly unique to "nuTrek" or the franchise as a whole.

 

[Nyotarules]

So are we supposed to ignore the parts they contradict and just say "YEAH ITS TOTALLY CANON!"

Yep since 1966. Canon is the body of work on the screen, nothing more, nothing less. The definition of Canon is not 'factual information or information on screen that never changes'

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

They most certainly have not.

They actually have. They flat out said that they're changing the timeline and will continue to do so.

‘Strange New Worlds’ Showrunner Explains Show’s “Correction” To Star Trek History

It all comes down to Roddenberry's vision.

trekmovie.com

 

[IRW Bloodwing]

In regards to Ex Astris Scientia… That’s a hard no from me. They stray too far into fanatic territory for me and their dislike of DSC etc. is too agenda-led.

Besides, we don't need Berned at all. We have all the evidence we need from producers' statements and the altered details shown on screen.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Keeping Star Trek in 'our' timeline is such an exercise in pointlessness.

 

[HotRod]

They actually have. They flat out said that they're changing the timeline and will continue to do so.

‘Strange New Worlds’ Showrunner Explains Show’s “Correction” To Star Trek History

It all comes down to Roddenberry's vision.

trekmovie.com

Yeah.... that's not what they're implying at all. Otherwise, every single time they've had time travel in the franchise, it would need to be considered an alternate timeline.

 

[evilchumlee]

Keeping Star Trek in 'our' timeline is such an exercise in pointlessness.

Agreed. Just let it be its own thing with its own history.

 

[1001001]

No, I mean generally do what Trekkies have always done when things don't necessarily line up perfectly, which is often the case with Trek. We have to use our imaginations and make it work. It's not a new concept and is hardly unique to recent additions to the franchise.

 

[Farscape One]

Keeping Star Trek in 'our' timeline is such an exercise in pointlessness.

Totally agreed. Unlike what was said in a Kurtzman (I believe it was him) interview a while back, I can be inspired by STAR TREK without it having to be directly connected to our own actual history. I'm sure many others can get inspired without that being necessary, as well. (That was another thing that didn't sit right with me... it makes it appear like he's underestimating the intelligence of the audience.)

 

[fireproof78]

creative thinking you mean disregard everything TOS established about the Gorn and just accept all of SNW's blatant retcon.

What was established?

And how much is based on just one example?

To expand, there is a lot of assumptions built from just one example of a Gorn. We don't know this is Starfleet's first encounter and the Gorn clearly know Starfleet since they approach like a normal ship then set a trap for the Enterprise.

 

[James Cole]

Luckily this is a thread on canon...

I don't agree with EAS on everything. I'd argue the timing of the Eugenics Wars vis a vis World War III in the Berman era is easily attributed to when did World War II begin/end historical debates. Spanish Civil War. Japanese Invasion of Manchuria... the Soviet occupation of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania not ending until the 1990s. Berlin until 1990s... Wars... plural. Plus TNG and ENT both make clear "eugenics" type references to WW3.

The 2260s era is well established by TOS. Some seemingly want to throw TOS away as some unreliable fictional recreation. But... TOS is too integrated into Berman era Trek. You have to start saying visual continuity never matters. That anything can arbitrarily be changed. How can you have foreshadowing from another series be incorporated into say PICARD or PRODIGY or STLD if the backstory is itself an undisclosed nebulous arbitrarily mystery box?

If DISCOVERY and SNW are truly the odd ones out, the easiest in universe explanation is alt timeline / parallel universe. Shouldn't SNW fans want their series to be freed from this half in / half out constraint anyway?