He never wondered why after Davison he looked like Commander Maxil.
Spoilers Rogue grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
He never wondered why after Davison he looked like Commander Maxil.
The whole Bridgerton of it all was lost on me since I don't watch the show, so the setting was a bit meh.
However, I thoroughly loved the Doctor's and Rogue's chemistry. It was so refreshing to actually see Ncuti in a full episode after the last couple Doctor-Lites.
The supporting cast felt like they were swinging for the fences a bit in their performances. I get the sense that RTD is letting everyone chew the scenery.
However, I thoroughly loved the Doctor's and Rogue's chemistry. It was so refreshing to actually see Ncuti in a full episode after the last couple Doctor-Lites.
The supporting cast felt like they were swinging for the fences a bit in their performances. I get the sense that RTD is letting everyone chew the scenery.
I really loved almost everything about this episode (more on that later) and how wildly it swung from silly and fun to deathly serious at a moment's notice. I'm grateful (and greatly amused) how the period piece setting was merely a trapping for the overall adventure and was directly a target for mockery...and cosplaying. I quite enjoyed the twist that the Chuldurs were driven to take over worlds through cosplaying and taking people's forms to do so.
The digital makeup of the Chuldurs were magnificent and really shows how far Doctor Who has come from. A bit of a tangent, but I maintain The Web Planet was ahead of its time and that if it could've been better realized through make-up, costume design, and sets like "Rogue," it would've been would be far more appreciated.
I had forgotten Indira Varma was going to be appearing this season so it was quite a delight to see her pop up. I loved watching her chewing up scenery, both as the Dutchess of Pemperton and as the Chuldurs leader. Her squawking and screaming during the chase sequence particularly reminded me of Miranda Richardson's performance as Queen Elizabeth I in Blackadder II.
But as fun and visually appealing as the Chuldurs are, the real meat of this episode was The Doctor's sudden romance with Rogue. I loved how quickly The Doctor became smitten by Rogue and was rather bemused by Rogue's unscrupulous lifestyle as a bounty hunter, right until his life was genuinely threaten. And yet, he still managed to (of course) talk his way out of that danger with the classic "see my many faces!" trope. Speaking of which...
Richard E. Grant is now canon! Now that's a twist I never thought I would see! Presumably this is the so-called Shalka Doctor and not The Quite Handsome Doctor. If I ever thought this would happen, I would've thought it would happen in the Moffat era and not either of the Davies eras. Either way, it's a fun addition to the lore and now fans have yet another thing to argue about for years to come: Where does the Shalka Doctor fit? And will we ever get to see him in live action?
But now the one thing about this episode I didn't like: I loved how Ruby was suddenly in genuine danger because of her "mistake" and The Doctor's misunderstanding, but I hated how Rogue was able to miraculously save the day by swapping places with her. That action took the gravitas out of that moment for me. Perhaps I'm being pedantic on this point, especially since companions in similar situations has happened many times (with actual weight and relief), but for whatever reason, it really bothered me this time.
I think part of it the issue for me is the episode failed to set-up the fact a person could swap for another person in that trap. Up to that moment, the episode had greatly stressed that the trap was a real and serious threat with no workarounds ("Even the sonic screwdriver can't help me this time") and yet Rogue was able to do this swap with a sudden handwave ("Body swap accepted!" or whatever the line was). Again, maybe I'm overreacting or maybe I did miss that set-up, but I really loved the gravitas of Ruby's "mistake" and I feel that moment was robbed of that weight when the swap occurred.
Either way, it's not the end of Rogue and I do hope we get to see him again sometime during The Fifteenth Doctor era. I loved the chemistry between Gatwa and Groff and I would love to see that relationship explored more.
The digital makeup of the Chuldurs were magnificent and really shows how far Doctor Who has come from. A bit of a tangent, but I maintain The Web Planet was ahead of its time and that if it could've been better realized through make-up, costume design, and sets like "Rogue," it would've been would be far more appreciated.
I had forgotten Indira Varma was going to be appearing this season so it was quite a delight to see her pop up. I loved watching her chewing up scenery, both as the Dutchess of Pemperton and as the Chuldurs leader. Her squawking and screaming during the chase sequence particularly reminded me of Miranda Richardson's performance as Queen Elizabeth I in Blackadder II.
But as fun and visually appealing as the Chuldurs are, the real meat of this episode was The Doctor's sudden romance with Rogue. I loved how quickly The Doctor became smitten by Rogue and was rather bemused by Rogue's unscrupulous lifestyle as a bounty hunter, right until his life was genuinely threaten. And yet, he still managed to (of course) talk his way out of that danger with the classic "see my many faces!" trope. Speaking of which...
Richard E. Grant is now canon! Now that's a twist I never thought I would see! Presumably this is the so-called Shalka Doctor and not The Quite Handsome Doctor. If I ever thought this would happen, I would've thought it would happen in the Moffat era and not either of the Davies eras. Either way, it's a fun addition to the lore and now fans have yet another thing to argue about for years to come: Where does the Shalka Doctor fit? And will we ever get to see him in live action?
But now the one thing about this episode I didn't like: I loved how Ruby was suddenly in genuine danger because of her "mistake" and The Doctor's misunderstanding, but I hated how Rogue was able to miraculously save the day by swapping places with her. That action took the gravitas out of that moment for me. Perhaps I'm being pedantic on this point, especially since companions in similar situations has happened many times (with actual weight and relief), but for whatever reason, it really bothered me this time.
I think part of it the issue for me is the episode failed to set-up the fact a person could swap for another person in that trap. Up to that moment, the episode had greatly stressed that the trap was a real and serious threat with no workarounds ("Even the sonic screwdriver can't help me this time") and yet Rogue was able to do this swap with a sudden handwave ("Body swap accepted!" or whatever the line was). Again, maybe I'm overreacting or maybe I did miss that set-up, but I really loved the gravitas of Ruby's "mistake" and I feel that moment was robbed of that weight when the swap occurred.
Either way, it's not the end of Rogue and I do hope we get to see him again sometime during The Fifteenth Doctor era. I loved the chemistry between Gatwa and Groff and I would love to see that relationship explored more.
The episode was average to me overall, like every episode I like Ncuti, and I even liked the Ruby being a fangirl subplot this episode, but overall I have no real familiarity with the era/style of "Bridgerton" and so found a lot of the episode dull. I did end up liking Rogue enough to want The Doctor to find him, so good work with that.
Now, on to the big "reveal". I am going to be fair here, I like Richard E Grant but I'm going to say the same thing that I'd say if they'd just put some random person's face: We're at the point where every new "Mystery Doctor" makes the entire character less special, and makes every previous Doctor less special. In a few years people will be dismissing William Hartnell as a nobody because he only played "The 12th incarnation of the entity known as The Doctor's Eleventh Regeneration Cycle" or some such bullshit. The Doctor is soon going to be bumping into themselves everywhere because they are apparently infinite and very susceptible to memory erasing.
I was fine with The War Doctor because he had a good explanation, and The Fugitive Doctor still fit into the previous regenerations and there was a perfect spot to head canon her into (between 2 and 3). But regardless of the Timeless Child bullshit its getting ridiculous. What's next, do we have to acknowledge the rest of the Curse of Fatal Death Doctors? Then what, the Unbound Doctors? The Stranger? Peter Cushing? They might as well just start declaring random British TV characters to have retroactively been The Doctor, I'm putting money on Captain Scarlet, Worzel Gummidge, Adam Adamant, John Steed and Mr. Blobby (as The Doctor's version of The Decayed Master).
I really just don't like where this all leads. The Doctor should be special. To paraphrase a Pixar villain: "When everyone is The Doctor, no one will be".
Now, on to the big "reveal". I am going to be fair here, I like Richard E Grant but I'm going to say the same thing that I'd say if they'd just put some random person's face: We're at the point where every new "Mystery Doctor" makes the entire character less special, and makes every previous Doctor less special. In a few years people will be dismissing William Hartnell as a nobody because he only played "The 12th incarnation of the entity known as The Doctor's Eleventh Regeneration Cycle" or some such bullshit. The Doctor is soon going to be bumping into themselves everywhere because they are apparently infinite and very susceptible to memory erasing.
I was fine with The War Doctor because he had a good explanation, and The Fugitive Doctor still fit into the previous regenerations and there was a perfect spot to head canon her into (between 2 and 3). But regardless of the Timeless Child bullshit its getting ridiculous. What's next, do we have to acknowledge the rest of the Curse of Fatal Death Doctors? Then what, the Unbound Doctors? The Stranger? Peter Cushing? They might as well just start declaring random British TV characters to have retroactively been The Doctor, I'm putting money on Captain Scarlet, Worzel Gummidge, Adam Adamant, John Steed and Mr. Blobby (as The Doctor's version of The Decayed Master).
I really just don't like where this all leads. The Doctor should be special. To paraphrase a Pixar villain: "When everyone is The Doctor, no one will be".
Its actually rather nice of RTD to count the Grant Doctor. Surprising since I remember reading less than charitable remarks about his performance in Shalka.
Beyond that, there's no reason to not count him as middle-aged version of the War Doctor, or even a cancelled incarnation of the Doctor from the Time War where he regenerated from and then unregenerated back to John Hurt? All's possible.
Beyond that, there's no reason to not count him as middle-aged version of the War Doctor, or even a cancelled incarnation of the Doctor from the Time War where he regenerated from and then unregenerated back to John Hurt? All's possible.
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It was like watching a fanfic, hugely for that reason. And on my list of ‘words younger people use that Who Writers don’t get’ I can add cosplay.
The episode was average to me overall, like every episode I like Ncuti, and I even liked the Ruby being a fangirl subplot this episode, but overall I have no real familiarity with the era/style of "Bridgerton" and so found a lot of the episode dull. I did end up liking Rogue enough to want The Doctor to find him, so good work with that.
Now, on to the big "reveal". I am going to be fair here, I like Richard E Grant but I'm going to say the same thing that I'd say if they'd just put some random person's face: We're at the point where every new "Mystery Doctor" makes the entire character less special, and makes every previous Doctor less special. In a few years people will be dismissing William Hartnell as a nobody because he only played "The 12th incarnation of the entity known as The Doctor's Eleventh Regeneration Cycle" or some such bullshit. The Doctor is soon going to be bumping into themselves everywhere because they are apparently infinite and very susceptible to memory erasing.
I was fine with The War Doctor because he had a good explanation, and The Fugitive Doctor still fit into the previous regenerations and there was a perfect spot to head canon her into (between 2 and 3). But regardless of the Timeless Child bullshit its getting ridiculous. What's next, do we have to acknowledge the rest of the Curse of Fatal Death Doctors? Then what, the Unbound Doctors? The Stranger? Peter Cushing? They might as well just start declaring random British TV characters to have retroactively been The Doctor, I'm putting money on Captain Scarlet, Worzel Gummidge, Adam Adamant, John Steed and Mr. Blobby (as The Doctor's version of The Decayed Master).
I really just don't like where this all leads. The Doctor should be special. To paraphrase a Pixar villain: "When everyone is The Doctor, no one will be".
Dixon of Dock Green, as a result of which Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes becomes canon to Who…
Oh, and Kris Marshall Doctor who was Chameleon Arched into Lady Cassandra’s son for a while.
I feel I'm missing something for not watching Bridgerton. It felt weird to see all the acceptance of interracial relationships coming off the last episode, having its cake and eating it too again? But I think that is part of Bridgerton? Do they also use anachronistic music on Bridgerton?
I realized that like people sometimes say of Indiana Jones the whole adventure might've played out the same if not for the Doctor's involvement. I suppose maybe Rogue would've mistakenly singled out one of the Chulder and either been killed or left prematurely leaving behind the rest. Even at the end of the episode it's Rogue that saves the day as the Doctor watches helplessly.
The Doctor's infatuation with Rogue seemed rather quick and intense from what we've seen so far but it's all just par for the course with fanfiction I suppose...
I realized that like people sometimes say of Indiana Jones the whole adventure might've played out the same if not for the Doctor's involvement. I suppose maybe Rogue would've mistakenly singled out one of the Chulder and either been killed or left prematurely leaving behind the rest. Even at the end of the episode it's Rogue that saves the day as the Doctor watches helplessly.
The Doctor's infatuation with Rogue seemed rather quick and intense from what we've seen so far but it's all just par for the course with fanfiction I suppose...
The show that wouldn’t give some fans a kiss for Thasmin, now has the lead hook up with a rando Captain Jack Knock off with the serial numbers rubbed off.
(And sorry US of Americans, any time one of you turns up as an ally in Who, I now expect you to be gay and have a gun.)
A ‘boys-love’ regency romance novel. Can practically see the AO3 tags on it.
And the make-up was awful.
This is a response to everyone who felt like they were missing something by not watching Bridgerton: I haven't watch that show either but I felt just fine watching what we saw. Perhaps it's because I'm a big fan of Jane Austen and other stories set during that period. The only thing I gleamed from the outside is that Bridgerton is just a sexier, more overt, more scandalous (and maybe more comedic?) version of those stories.
Perhaps the anachronistic music is another part of that but didn't really take me out of the episode either. That music felt more like a Rogue thing because (unless I'm mistaken and I quite possibly am) that was introduced with the "Can't Get You Outta My Head" moment (which is especially funny since Kylie Minogue has been a guest on the show) and then we got all of the acoustic versions of other songs (all of which I loved).
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The music is definitely a Bridgerton thing - for example, the first season has Thank You, Next, and Bad Guy, Season 2 has Material Girl, and Wrecking Ball, for example - and was reportedly inspired by A Knights Tale, and Moulin Rouge, ie contemporary music to anachronistically evoke the period feeling
The Kylie Minogue thing has more Who relevance than simply Kylie playing Astrid given that she performed it in her Showgirl tour with dancers dresses as Cybermen.
I stand corrected (as I expected to be). Still, I didn't mind it. Reminded me of Westworld (in a good way).
That tripped me up, too, but I think I figured out the loophole; the Doctor said that he could expand the trap to hold six people at the very most. Rogue jumping in meant there were seven people inside and overloaded it, so it was disabled until he shoved Ruby out and it was back down to six people trapped.
I'm glad I wasn't the only person who had an issue with that moment. However, wasn't it six people with Ruby? I don't have the time to go back and check but I'm pretty sure it was only six people before Rogue jumped in and made the swap. I guess your loophole still works since he was the seventh and that caused the issue.
Still a bit of a weak explanation if that's the case but I'll have to rewatch the episode to reevaluate that moment.
That's now three episodes in a row that I need to go back and reevaluate. Life is so rough.
Well, I've never seen Bridgerton. And I'm not sure if I want to watch it after this. So, there's that.
So, with that out of the way: I really enjoyed this. Also, this is the most romantic the Doctor's been in a long while. Basically, I don't have much to add than Nth Doctor or others haven't said, except that unlike the rest of the series, which felt decidedly experimental in form and tone, this felt and was more traditional NuWho an episode, and indeed made me feel like I was watching late series 2, mid-series 3-era DW episode, so I definitely enjoyed it overall. And man, is the Fifteenth Doctor horny, hahaha!
Also, honestly, this should've been the third episode, the pseudo-historical one placement? Just saying.
So, with that out of the way: I really enjoyed this. Also, this is the most romantic the Doctor's been in a long while. Basically, I don't have much to add than Nth Doctor or others haven't said, except that unlike the rest of the series, which felt decidedly experimental in form and tone, this felt and was more traditional NuWho an episode, and indeed made me feel like I was watching late series 2, mid-series 3-era DW episode, so I definitely enjoyed it overall. And man, is the Fifteenth Doctor horny, hahaha!
Also, honestly, this should've been the third episode, the pseudo-historical one placement? Just saying.
Retroactively he should've wondered why the Great Intelligence, or indeed that dude in The Snowmen looked like him in the first place. But, a couple of theories:
1) He's a now-cancelled Doctor, a retroregenerated Doctor who was originally the Ninth Doctor after Hurt but reverted back (who knows how) and thus never counted as an actual regeneration...yet still resides in his memory or his internal matrix or whatever.
2) The Great Intelligence did set out to replace the Doctor when he entered his timestream in Name of the Doctor, maybe he really DID become the Doctor by doing that and the reading counts that experience.
Also, the Doctor is tehnically not seeing the faces as he's talking to Rogue, so he simply didn't notice.
I'm still waiting on BF to tackle that, eventually.
Time for the hot take of the week: Rogue did very little for me. I liked his chemistry with the Doctor, but... that's it. Not exactly enamoured, and frankly it did kinda make me miss Captain Jack a little.
Yeah, that was definitely a cop-out. I rolled with it anyway simply because the episode was ending and Ruby is the companion, so of course she's going to need to stay. And it's certainly not the first time the Doctor or companion or main cast of any show has been rescued by contrived means in the climax, but yeah, it was a cop-out all the same.
Though, for the fun of it, here's a Pitch Meeting joke about that:
"It's going to be impossible to save Ruby now."
"Actually, it's going to be super easy, barely an inconvenience."
"Oh really?"
"Yeah, Rogue will bump into her, knocking her off the triangle pad thingy, and then he will take her place."
"Is that possible?"
"Sure it is. I wrote it. That makes it possible."
I've never watched Bridgerton myself, but I had no problem following this episode. It helps at some parts to look at it as a parody of Bridgerton or other contemporary shows in a period setting, IMO.
CW's Reign was also noted for anachronistically using modern pop songs in a historical setting.
