Code Of Honor: What Do You Think?

[Charles Phipps]

I think it's only racist because it's about the only predominately black planet in the franchise and they set it around stealing a white woman. Their pseudo-Arabian attire and misogyny also notably falls into this as well.

If it was a bunch of white aliens, yes, it would be less racist but still fall into some orientalist stereotypes.

But you still have to wonder why there's so few other planets of color.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The first time I saw this episode, I had met, I don't know, 20 black people in my life? (Italy in the late 80s wasn't exactly a melting pot). So the whole “Is this racist?” angle flew right over my head.

And still I thought it sucked.

Ditto.

I thought Picard was talking about how they reminded him of Egypt, and then I said to myself "Wha chu talking about Jean-Luc?" and then I should have realized that it was me who was racist.

Actually what I thought, as an 11 year old was "What the fuck are you talking about old man?" but the sentiment was identical.

The Movellans were all black from the 70s, and there was nothing wrong with that. Advanced Dalek killing humaniform robots. Giving them all glowing disco Fulani cornrow braids may have been a little racist. Ha! Kim Kadassian got into trouble in 2018, not for wearing Fulani braids, but for describing her doo as a "Bo Derrick" hair cut.

The first Cyberman story in the 1966, they found a group of out of work Basket ball players to be cast as 7 foot tall murder robots. Is it racist to assume that all basket ball players are black, even in England?

 

[Moviefan2k4]

The first Cyberman story in the 1966, they found a group of out of work Basket ball players to be cast as 7 foot tall murder robots. Is it racist to assume that all basket ball players are black, even in England?

Not to get too far off-topic, but this reminds me of the ending to the 2017 live-action remake, of Disney's "Beauty and the Beast". When all the Prince's servants are restored to their human forms, a good number of them are revealed to have been in multi-racial relationships. I have no problem with that at all, but from an historical perspective I was seriously asking myself the question, "How many black people really lived, in 18th-century France?" I later looked it up, mainly from curiosity...and while the exact number isn't known, estimates range from 4,000 to 5,000 people. By comparison, the total population of that country grew drastically during that time, from 19.7 million in 1700, to 29 million by 1800...wow!

 

[Guy Gardener]

Not to get too far off-topic, but this reminds me of the ending to the 2017 live-action remake, of Disney's "Beauty and the Beast". When all the Prince's servants are restored to their human forms, a good number of them are revealed to have been in multi-racial relationships. I have no problem with that at all, but from an historical perspective I was seriously asking myself the question, "How many black people really lived, in 18th-century France?" I later looked it up, mainly from curiosity...and while the exact number isn't known, estimates range from 4,000 to 5,000 people. By comparison, the total population of that country grew drastically during that time, from 19.7 million in 1700, to 29 million by 1800...wow!

As of 1778, the French were trafficking approximately 13,000 African people as slaves to the French West Indies each year. While slavery had been active in French colonies since the early 16th century, it was theoretically not legitimized by the French government until the Revolutionary convention in 1794.

The Beast, when he was a Prince, kept slaves?

Only the most wealthy could afford to own people.

So as soon as all his cursed furniture were turned back into people, some of those people would have been thrown into cages or chained up against something sturdy.

Or...

They killed Beauty and the Prince, and then sold all their stuff, to pay for a very comfortable escape.

 

[Moviefan2k4]

The Beast, when he was a Prince, kept slaves?

Only the most wealthy could afford to own people.

So as soon as all his cursed furniture were turned back into people, some of those people would have been thrown into cages or chained up against something sturdy.

Or...

They killed Beauty and the Prince, and then sold all their stuff, to pay for a very comfortable escape.

I know you're being sarcastic, but I am honestly curious as to where you got your "13,000 African slaves" info. My post was based on a simple Google search.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I know you're being sarcastic, but I am honestly curious as to where you got your "13,000 African slaves" info. My post was based on a simple Google search.

I typed "France + black + slaves" into google.

I also typed into google "when was Disney's Beauty and the Beast set?" and it said somewhen between 1720 and 1750, so my facts don't even line up very well.

Oh.

It said 13 thousand per year.

Which is talking about "cargo" imports and exports, not citizens.

So we are both right.

 

[Jayson1]

I noticed the racism from the start but I could tell it was the kind that comes more from ignorance or not being self aware than hate. Also very much a product of it's time. It is the kind of episode that could be made in the 1980's. To many black actors in key roles to pass in a 1950's or 60's show but to many negative stereotypes to pass in a tv show made in the late 90's and post year 2000.

 

[cgervasi]

The racism went over my head. I don't think people born into the Western race caste system, or whatever we should call it, can ignore race; but as a nerdy 12 y/o, I think I missed it. I totally believed that Yar being kidnapped by a powerful leader would naturally make her feel flattered and aroused. I knew nothing about girls, but I was confused by detonating the photons 1km above the surface, closer than a strategic nuke airburst that I feared. I was trying to work out why those torpedoes were so weak.

 

[Guy Gardener]

That bit where they transported into a cargo bay because "it was cheating" to beam towards Enterprise's transporter pads, and then they brought their own carpet to walk on for 5 feet?

Are we certain that they didn't re-put the same carpet down that he'd just walked down, in front of Lutan like replacing dominoes?

They were morons.

 

[Quantum21]

I think it's only racist because it's about the only predominately black planet in the franchise and they set it around stealing a white woman. Their pseudo-Arabian attire and misogyny also notably falls into this as well.

If it was a bunch of white aliens, yes, it would be less racist but still fall into some orientalist stereotypes.

But you still have to wonder why there's so few other planets of color.

There are quite a few episodes with crew getting kidnapped that are all white planets.

 

[Charles Phipps]

There are quite a few episodes with crew getting kidnapped that are all white planets.

Yes.

And is that a rebuttal to my point or underlining it?

 

[Mojochi]

There are quite a few episodes with crew getting kidnapped that are all white planets.

There are. Some of them quite good even. What complicates things even more imho is that many of them also present some kind of social commentary, like The High Ground. So, the general expectation is to get those kinds of treatments from the show, which in this case could lead a casual viewer to see Code of Honor & draw some wild conclusions about WTF the show was trying to say, when ultimately, it's actually just a run of the mill, half-assed episode with no solid message at all.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You people keep saying "white planets".

 

[Mojochi]

You people keep saying "white planets".

What you mean "you people"? just kidding

 

[Uhura's Song]

If they'd cast white actors as the planet natives, it would have been standard Season 1 fodder: disliked but not reviled.

Say what you want, that fight scene with the laser jungle gym was at least imaginative.

I have always kinda liked the fight scene.

This is also one of the few episodes Tasha gets to do anything.

Are the natives really any more manipulative than Spock's fiancee in "Amok Time?" I mean, that is what they were going for, I think. Some kind of spin on that episode.

The idea that a Roddenberry Trek episode was intentionally racist is absurd, in my view.

So, the bad guys/antagonists can never be black? Or Asian? Or women? Or Latino? Or religious?

The episode was unfortunate, nothing more.

Then again, I thought "Angel One" was decent and "Sub Rosa" and "Justice" did not bother me much, either. Hardly the strongest episodes, but not horrible.

 

[Michael]

The idea that a Roddenberry Trek episode was intentionally racist is absurd, in my view.

If not the episode, what about the casting? Can the casting be racist? There were literally hundreds of people working on this show. It’s absurd to claim that because the main guy was pretty progressive and anti-racist, everyone on the production would also be that.

So, the bad guys/antagonists can never be black? Or Asian? Or women? Or Latino? Or religious?

That’s a strawman if I ever saw one, because who is even saying any of that?

 

[Guy Gardener]

If not the episode, what about the casting? Can the casting be racist? There were literally hundreds of people working on this show. It’s absurd to claim that because the main guy was pretty progressive and anti-racist, everyone on the production would also be that.


That’s a strawman if I ever saw one, because who is even saying any of that?

The Racist bit: "They are coming for our white women!"
The less racist bit: Lets only hire black people.
The can't be racist bit: Lets pay them the same as a white cast.

But did they pay the black cast, the same as the white cast?

 

[JamesRye]

The director made a conscious decision to make the Ligonians a planet of Ooga Booga Darkest Africa tribesmen-esque stereotypes. They're not just aliens who happen to all be played by black guys, they all dress and act in an over the top stereotyped fashion.

It reminds me of the Phantom Menace that I took my son to watch. I'd never realised how racist that was until my 30's. For example, Watto who is a filthy junk dealer who loves to gamble, obsessed with money with a large hooked nose and a Middle Eastern accent. I mean. Wow.

 

[Oddish]

Then again, I thought "Angel One" was decent and "Sub Rosa" and "Justice" did not bother me much, either. Hardly the strongest episodes, but not horrible.

"Angel One" was underrated, especially when you compare it to the ridiculous premise of the DS9 Ferengi arc. I'll take the more realistic "the oppressed sex has to gain equality through the slow, grinding, and often painful process of evolution" over "one woman magically transforms her society so that women go from chattel to full equality overnight" any day of the week.

The Racist bit: "They are coming for our white women!"
The less racist bit: Lets only hire black people.
The can't be racist bit: Lets pay them the same as a white cast.

Sounds about right.

The director made a conscious decision to make the Ligonians a planet of Ooga Booga Darkest Africa tribesmen-esque stereotypes. They're not just aliens who happen to all be played by black guys, they all dress and act in an over the top stereotyped fashion.

It would be interesting to see if they had created an episode with a more enlightened alien society, casting all blacks or all Asians. Would there be accusations of racism then?

 

[trekshark]

It reminds me of the Phantom Menace that I took my son to watch. I'd never realised how racist that was until my 30's. For example, Watto who is a filthy junk dealer who loves to gamble, obsessed with money with a large hooked nose and a Middle Eastern accent. I mean. Wow.

Don't forget the crappy Asian like accents on the trade federation people