I'm hoping they release this type of cut one day.
What I picture is for the opening credits to have a starfield, like you'd see in all the TOS Movies. The font would be in TOS Movie style, except it would be in TNG blue.
Poll Rank the Picard Seasons
- Thread starter DonIago
- Start date
What I picture is for the opening credits to have a starfield, like you'd see in all the TOS Movies. The font would be in TOS Movie style, except it would be in TNG blue.
Since this is a best-to-worst poll, my order is 3-2-1.
It seems Season 1 is more popular than Season 2. I'm all for respecting people's opinions and preferences but I just don't see how.
So in late January 2023, I spent a couple of weeks binge-watching the first two seasons in preparation of Season 3 since i didn't get to watch the first two seasons in their original run but wanted to see 3 in its original run.
I feel like I lost precious brain cells forcing myself to watch Season 1. I didn't get Season 1, like, at all. Things seemed like they were basically happening all over the place. One of Season 1's saving graces was bringing back Hugh but they killed him off.
The only mitigating factors about Season 1 were:
Season 2 however dealt with time travel. I think it was cool seeing how they went back in time to a city that looks like the present day and not too futuristic. A lot of people seemed to not like this season for the time travel stuff. But for me, Seven and Rafi in that police chase was cool to watch. I also enjoyed hearing Dr. Song drop an f-bomb against Q. Plus Picard and younger Guinan had an interesting adventure it seemed. It was also nice to see Whoopi Goldberg return as the OG Guinan again! The bus ride scene even paid homage to one of the Star Trek movies where Kirk and Spock went back in time and the guy with the mohawk even did a cameo appearance! Same actor too!
My only 2 Season 2 regrets is that that guy didn't return to his own time and chose instead to stay behind with that lady and her son. A bit sad but that wouldn't make the season bad. The other is that we didn't see more of Wesley. There was a lot of potential to expand on his character and even have Wesley and Picard reunite! Huge missed opportunity there.
Season 3 however was what the while series should've been from the beginning, minus the return of the Enterprise D so that could be saved for the very end. I know the only slack Season 3 gets is that it was too TNG oriented but I actually don't take issue with this, only because as for the show in general I thought it was nice to see on screen what the TNG crew were and have been up to in the years since NEM.
Like many others, I'm not interested in any more Trek featuring the TNG crew back again but their comeback and final send-off was beautifully done.
However the way I see it, the first two seasons were more about what Patrick Stewart wanted (or more accurately DIDN'T want) the show to be whereas in came Matalas who cared more about making Season 3 what the fans wanted.
So yeah, I'm Team 3-2-1 all day.
It seems Season 1 is more popular than Season 2. I'm all for respecting people's opinions and preferences but I just don't see how.
So in late January 2023, I spent a couple of weeks binge-watching the first two seasons in preparation of Season 3 since i didn't get to watch the first two seasons in their original run but wanted to see 3 in its original run.
I feel like I lost precious brain cells forcing myself to watch Season 1. I didn't get Season 1, like, at all. Things seemed like they were basically happening all over the place. One of Season 1's saving graces was bringing back Hugh but they killed him off.
The only mitigating factors about Season 1 were:
- The Ten Forward scene at the very beginning. Granted Data had on the wrong uniform but considering it was Picard's dream it was excusable.
- The scene of Picard reuniting with Troi in "Nepenthe" was very emotional. I loved it!
- Seven of Nine's appearance at the end of one episode. Her line, "You owe me a ship, Picard," was an epic win!
- The scene in the finale of Riker briefly coming out of retirement from Starfleet to command the USS Zheng He against a Romulan fleet. That was so cool!
Season 2 however dealt with time travel. I think it was cool seeing how they went back in time to a city that looks like the present day and not too futuristic. A lot of people seemed to not like this season for the time travel stuff. But for me, Seven and Rafi in that police chase was cool to watch. I also enjoyed hearing Dr. Song drop an f-bomb against Q. Plus Picard and younger Guinan had an interesting adventure it seemed. It was also nice to see Whoopi Goldberg return as the OG Guinan again! The bus ride scene even paid homage to one of the Star Trek movies where Kirk and Spock went back in time and the guy with the mohawk even did a cameo appearance! Same actor too!
My only 2 Season 2 regrets is that that guy didn't return to his own time and chose instead to stay behind with that lady and her son. A bit sad but that wouldn't make the season bad. The other is that we didn't see more of Wesley. There was a lot of potential to expand on his character and even have Wesley and Picard reunite! Huge missed opportunity there.
Season 3 however was what the while series should've been from the beginning, minus the return of the Enterprise D so that could be saved for the very end. I know the only slack Season 3 gets is that it was too TNG oriented but I actually don't take issue with this, only because as for the show in general I thought it was nice to see on screen what the TNG crew were and have been up to in the years since NEM.
Like many others, I'm not interested in any more Trek featuring the TNG crew back again but their comeback and final send-off was beautifully done.
However the way I see it, the first two seasons were more about what Patrick Stewart wanted (or more accurately DIDN'T want) the show to be whereas in came Matalas who cared more about making Season 3 what the fans wanted.
So yeah, I'm Team 3-2-1 all day.
If you want to hire him yes you do appease him.
I fail to disagree but the point I was making (or trying to make) was that S1-2 was about what he wanted and they weren't good or at least as good as they could've been, whereas S3 was less about what he wanted and more about what the fans want and it was good.
I thought S1 was what the show should have been (flaws notwithstanding; how many S1 of Trek are particularly good?) and S3 was fairly shameless pandering to the fans who wanted a TNG S8 instead of taking risks.
Which is the root of the bipolarity of how the series is regarded. You have the people who wanted a TNG S8, and you have the people who wanted the series to embrace its original premise, and neither side is more 'right' than the other, except that as presented the show itself is bipolar.
As for S2, I didn't mind the time travel; I just didn't need or want it to dominate the season.
I bolded the part of your quote I am answering.
TOS, LOWER DECKS, PRODIGY, and SNW each have very, very good first seasons.
TNG, DS9, and VOY have a mixed bag for their first season. (I do think they are each better than are seen by most.)
TAS, ENT, PIC, and DISCO... no.
I agree to a point (I think Season 3 was fine), but my question is how do you persuade Stewart to do 3 without 1 or 2?
The idea that "this is the way it should have been all along" is fine and all, if it occurs in a vacuum and ignores what a person wants.
Uh, you don't?
That's my literal answer, but if I'm understanding what you're asking if S1 had been S3 subject matter wise, he would've flat out refused and said no since one of his conditions for doing the show was he didn't want the whole TNG cast on board (pardon the pun), especially when at that point he already showed an interest in distancing himself from his Star Trek past.
From what I heard he was okay with the whole TNG cast returning for S3 (provided they didn't all come back all at once) because he enjoyed working with the few who had already returned in the previous two seasons, and I'm sure Matalas did a pretty good job convincing Stewart to let the producers bring the whole cast back. But if you want a definite and official answer to this, the best person to ask is Patrick Stewart himself.
While I never even touched the book, I am certain enough to bet money he addressed this in his memoir Making it So. But that's the best explanation I can personally give you.
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Hell, I'm in the same boat as Patrick Stewart. Seasons 1 and 2 of Picard and the goodwill I got from them made me okay with Season 3 being a TNG Movie.
If this were five years ago, and someone told me, "They're doing another Star Trek series and the first season is going to be one big TNG Movie!", ummm... well, I'm telling you right now that Five Years Ago Lord Garth would've said, "Thanks, but no thanks!"
If this were five years ago, and someone told me, "They're doing another Star Trek series and the first season is going to be one big TNG Movie!", ummm... well, I'm telling you right now that Five Years Ago Lord Garth would've said, "Thanks, but no thanks!"
Obviously, I don't. But, the certainty around Season 3 being good, while the first two were not, is an interesting one to me, especially with the idea that Stewart didn't want TNG again. So, in a weird hypothetical way I'm mulling over possibilities of persuasion given the facts know before Season 1 was produced.Uh, you don't?
That's my literal answer, but if I'm understanding what you're asking if S1 had been S3 subject matter wise, he would've flat out refused and said no since one of his conditions for doing the show was he didn't want the whole TNG cast on board (pardon the pun), especially when at that point he already showed an interest in distancing himself from his Star Trek past.
From what I heard he was okay with the whole TNG cast returning for S3 (provided they didn't all come back all at once) because he enjoyed working with the few who had already returned in the previous two seasons, and I'm sure Matalas did a pretty good job convincing Stewart to let the producers bring the whole cast back. But if you want a definite and official answer to this, the best person to ask is Patrick Stewart himself.
While I never even touched the book, I am certain enough to bet money he addressed this in his memoir Making it So. But that's the best explanation I can personally give you.
I glanced at that section in the bookstore. Maybe 4 pages cover the whole of the series, and even then a few of his accounts contradict other sources (the art / making of book, interviews...). It's been a few months, but you got the gist of it.
Glad to see team 3-2-1's number's continuing to grow
Speaking of, I still say "Stardust City Rag" is the single worst Star Trek episode set in the 24th century.
"Profit and Lace" outpaces that episode by several lengths as the worst in the 24th century.
Oh, there are worst episodes. "Sub Rosa", "Move Along Home", "Threshold"
I haven't seen the seasons in a while, so I voted based on emotional impressions. 3 had good positive vibes for me, 1 was meh, and 2 gave me the strongest negative vibes.
So, I am back after rewatching "Bloodlines" and I noticed a lot of similarities between that episode and Picard Season 3.
* a person who could be Picard's son threaten by an external agent
* the son has a mother who does her own thing, with the implication being that the mother didn't want Picard involved in the raising of the son
* the son has a criminal background
* both Picard and son work their way through a conflict; at the end, they have come to respect the other
I haven't seen the seasons in a while, so I voted based on emotional impressions. 3 had good positive vibes for me, 1 was meh, and 2 gave me the strongest negative vibes.
So, I am back after rewatching "Bloodlines" and I noticed a lot of similarities between that episode and Picard Season 3.
* a person who could be Picard's son threaten by an external agent
* the son has a mother who does her own thing, with the implication being that the mother didn't want Picard involved in the raising of the son
* the son has a criminal background
* both Picard and son work their way through a conflict; at the end, they have come to respect the other
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Updating my rankings, since I've re-watched all the TNG Movies last week. They help put the Picard seasons into better context, at least for me. Rounding off to the nearest point on a 10-scale.
1. "The Best of Both Worlds" --> 10
The best TNG Movie technically wasn't a movie. I saw it in a theater in 2013, so it counts as far as I'm concerned. A major turning point in Picard's life, a major turning point for the Federation, looks at Riker's career, and it has Shelby challenging Riker from within while the Borg challenge the entire crew from without. Works on so many levels. The Ron Jones score sells it perfectly.
2. Star Trek: First Contact --> 10
TNG on the Big Screen, with a ship and sets built for the Big Screen. Follows up on Picard's trauma from BOBW, shows First Contact between Earth and Vulcan, introduces the Borg Queen, has some really raw scenes, and cuts right down to whether or not Humanity in the 24th Century actually really is as evolved as Picard says, and puts a microscope right up to that claim.
3. Picard Season 3 --> 9
Follows up on the entire TNG crew 20 years after Nemesis and sees how their lives have moved forward. Vadic has a charismatic Prescence. Shaw is a great addition who challenges Picard and Riker in a critical way, but also has flaws including the way he treats Seven. The season shows how Seven adjusts to actually being an actual Starfleet Officer as opposed to her time with the Fenris Rangers or a newly liberated ex-drone on Voyager. It also shows how Picard comes to terms with having a son and takes the Picard/Crusher relationship further than I ever expected to see. We get to see what Riker is actually like as a seasoned Captain for more than just the one scene we had in Season 1. I liked the reveal that Borg had a multi-layered plan where Picard could still lead to the assimilation of Humanity through offspring even after he was rescued from the Collective in BOBW. I liked how Shaw served as a reminder that more people suffered at the hands of Locutus than just Sisko. Loved how Picard's statement about Starfleet being "the only family I ever needed!" could be read on two levels: one it sounds great because he doesn't know about Jack, but to Jack that sounds really messed up, and then Picard thinking back to that moment and realizing the weight of what he actually said. And so many other things I've already pointed out before. I didn't even mention the D. This is getting too long....
4. Picard Season 1 --> 9
I liked that this season wasn't afraid to take Picard out of the context of Starfleet, the Enterprise, or his former crew, and dropped him into La Sirena on a mission unsanctioned by Starfleet to find Data's "daughter" and Dahj's "sister" Soji. This season masterfully wove the pieces left behind by Nemesis, the future scenes in "All Good Things", Spock Prime's recap of 2387 in Star Trek (2009) to create the world of 2399. La Sirena's crew was as different from the Enterprise-D crew as you could get. I also loved getting a different take on Seven of Nine, who's been hardened by her experiences since Voyager returned to the Alpha Quadrant. Best of all, this season had the best developed Romulans I've ever seen. It took everything we ever knew, saw, or heard about the Romulans and took it to another level.
5. Picard Season 2 --> 8
I enjoyed all the episodes on an individual level, even though the whole didn't quite add up, but I loved seeing the Confederation. I loved seeing a Borg Queen who wasn't obsessed with revenge, we got to see a version of her in a completely different context. I liked the 2024 scenes and some of the stuff other people didn't like I enjoyed, including the Car Chase. That actually had me on the edge of my seat. I loved when Picard and company crashed the NASA gathering on the night before Renee Picard's mission. It felt like an episode of Mission: Impossible (that series, BTW, is much better than the movies and was Star Trek's sister show in the '60s, so I recommend watching it if you have seen it). Seven and Raffi make a great duo. Rios's easy-going budding relationship with Teresa was nice to watch. Brent Spiner was perfect antagonist as Adam Soong. The storyline with Q could've used some work, but I did enjoy his scenes with the aforementioned Adam Soong. Penelope Mitchel was effective as Renee Picard. Orla Brady was great as Tallinn. If the writers couldn't find much for her to do as Laris, I'm glad they found more for her to do as Tallinn. Ito Aghayere was okay as a Young Guinan if you look at her as her own character, but she didn't really come across to me that well as a younger version of Whoopi Goldberg. I appreciated that this season wasn't afraid to look at Picard's past, and was able to directly contrast his mother as seen in "Where No One Has Gone Before" with his father as seen in "Tapestry", because they really did seem so different from each other. Kore was pretty much a different spin on Dahj and Soji where she thought she was one thing and found out she was really something else. All I have to say about the season. A lot more positive than people give it credit for. And a shout out to Lea Thompson for directing and making an appearance!
6. Star Trek: Generations --> 7
It's not a bad movie, it's just an uneven movie, and I don't think this was the best story to introduce TNG to for a movie audience if they hadn't watched the TV series. The cinematography is great, the lighting is moody, it was great to have Kirk meet Picard, but a lot of what's in the movie seemed too much like a checklist of things, which it was, but at least it had ambition and aimed for a story with a larger scope, unlike...
7. Star Trek: Insurrection --> 6
Sounds cliche to say this, but it's true: this feels like a middling episode with a movie-sized budget. That was always true, but now, in the time since January 6th, 2021, when we've seen an actual insurrection attempt, it makes this movie look tame compared to what it could've been. As it is, the film is pretty to look at, has nice effects, and is inoffensive... except during the flesh-stretching scenes!
8. Star Trek: Nemesis --> 5
I was going back-and-forth on whether or not to rank Insurrection last or Nemesis last, but I went with Nemesis. Insurrection didn't aim high whereas Nemesis aimed high and failed. I can't rank based on effort (in which case NEM wins), I have to rank based on what I see. And what I saw left me feeling in a dour mood when I walked out of the theater in 2002. The TNG Movies could've recovered from Insurrection. Nemesis killed TNG for almost two decades. It also killed my own interest in any further TNG until Picard came along, and I can't just ignore that. But the movie wasn't a total loss. It had its moments, and the soundtrack was some of Jerry Goldsmith's best work, but it just wasn't enough. Unlike in Picard Season 1, the Romulans here felt lackluster. The Remens did nothing for me. And Shinzon was boring. B-4 was annoying. The character moments among the TNG crew rise the movie. If someone did a fan-edit that focused on all the character moments, restored all the deleted scenes, and cut all the mind-numbing action scenes by half to two-thirds, it would've made for a much better movie.
1. "The Best of Both Worlds" --> 10
The best TNG Movie technically wasn't a movie. I saw it in a theater in 2013, so it counts as far as I'm concerned. A major turning point in Picard's life, a major turning point for the Federation, looks at Riker's career, and it has Shelby challenging Riker from within while the Borg challenge the entire crew from without. Works on so many levels. The Ron Jones score sells it perfectly.
2. Star Trek: First Contact --> 10
TNG on the Big Screen, with a ship and sets built for the Big Screen. Follows up on Picard's trauma from BOBW, shows First Contact between Earth and Vulcan, introduces the Borg Queen, has some really raw scenes, and cuts right down to whether or not Humanity in the 24th Century actually really is as evolved as Picard says, and puts a microscope right up to that claim.
3. Picard Season 3 --> 9
Follows up on the entire TNG crew 20 years after Nemesis and sees how their lives have moved forward. Vadic has a charismatic Prescence. Shaw is a great addition who challenges Picard and Riker in a critical way, but also has flaws including the way he treats Seven. The season shows how Seven adjusts to actually being an actual Starfleet Officer as opposed to her time with the Fenris Rangers or a newly liberated ex-drone on Voyager. It also shows how Picard comes to terms with having a son and takes the Picard/Crusher relationship further than I ever expected to see. We get to see what Riker is actually like as a seasoned Captain for more than just the one scene we had in Season 1. I liked the reveal that Borg had a multi-layered plan where Picard could still lead to the assimilation of Humanity through offspring even after he was rescued from the Collective in BOBW. I liked how Shaw served as a reminder that more people suffered at the hands of Locutus than just Sisko. Loved how Picard's statement about Starfleet being "the only family I ever needed!" could be read on two levels: one it sounds great because he doesn't know about Jack, but to Jack that sounds really messed up, and then Picard thinking back to that moment and realizing the weight of what he actually said. And so many other things I've already pointed out before. I didn't even mention the D. This is getting too long....
4. Picard Season 1 --> 9
I liked that this season wasn't afraid to take Picard out of the context of Starfleet, the Enterprise, or his former crew, and dropped him into La Sirena on a mission unsanctioned by Starfleet to find Data's "daughter" and Dahj's "sister" Soji. This season masterfully wove the pieces left behind by Nemesis, the future scenes in "All Good Things", Spock Prime's recap of 2387 in Star Trek (2009) to create the world of 2399. La Sirena's crew was as different from the Enterprise-D crew as you could get. I also loved getting a different take on Seven of Nine, who's been hardened by her experiences since Voyager returned to the Alpha Quadrant. Best of all, this season had the best developed Romulans I've ever seen. It took everything we ever knew, saw, or heard about the Romulans and took it to another level.
5. Picard Season 2 --> 8
I enjoyed all the episodes on an individual level, even though the whole didn't quite add up, but I loved seeing the Confederation. I loved seeing a Borg Queen who wasn't obsessed with revenge, we got to see a version of her in a completely different context. I liked the 2024 scenes and some of the stuff other people didn't like I enjoyed, including the Car Chase. That actually had me on the edge of my seat. I loved when Picard and company crashed the NASA gathering on the night before Renee Picard's mission. It felt like an episode of Mission: Impossible (that series, BTW, is much better than the movies and was Star Trek's sister show in the '60s, so I recommend watching it if you have seen it). Seven and Raffi make a great duo. Rios's easy-going budding relationship with Teresa was nice to watch. Brent Spiner was perfect antagonist as Adam Soong. The storyline with Q could've used some work, but I did enjoy his scenes with the aforementioned Adam Soong. Penelope Mitchel was effective as Renee Picard. Orla Brady was great as Tallinn. If the writers couldn't find much for her to do as Laris, I'm glad they found more for her to do as Tallinn. Ito Aghayere was okay as a Young Guinan if you look at her as her own character, but she didn't really come across to me that well as a younger version of Whoopi Goldberg. I appreciated that this season wasn't afraid to look at Picard's past, and was able to directly contrast his mother as seen in "Where No One Has Gone Before" with his father as seen in "Tapestry", because they really did seem so different from each other. Kore was pretty much a different spin on Dahj and Soji where she thought she was one thing and found out she was really something else. All I have to say about the season. A lot more positive than people give it credit for. And a shout out to Lea Thompson for directing and making an appearance!
6. Star Trek: Generations --> 7
It's not a bad movie, it's just an uneven movie, and I don't think this was the best story to introduce TNG to for a movie audience if they hadn't watched the TV series. The cinematography is great, the lighting is moody, it was great to have Kirk meet Picard, but a lot of what's in the movie seemed too much like a checklist of things, which it was, but at least it had ambition and aimed for a story with a larger scope, unlike...
7. Star Trek: Insurrection --> 6
Sounds cliche to say this, but it's true: this feels like a middling episode with a movie-sized budget. That was always true, but now, in the time since January 6th, 2021, when we've seen an actual insurrection attempt, it makes this movie look tame compared to what it could've been. As it is, the film is pretty to look at, has nice effects, and is inoffensive... except during the flesh-stretching scenes!
8. Star Trek: Nemesis --> 5
I was going back-and-forth on whether or not to rank Insurrection last or Nemesis last, but I went with Nemesis. Insurrection didn't aim high whereas Nemesis aimed high and failed. I can't rank based on effort (in which case NEM wins), I have to rank based on what I see. And what I saw left me feeling in a dour mood when I walked out of the theater in 2002. The TNG Movies could've recovered from Insurrection. Nemesis killed TNG for almost two decades. It also killed my own interest in any further TNG until Picard came along, and I can't just ignore that. But the movie wasn't a total loss. It had its moments, and the soundtrack was some of Jerry Goldsmith's best work, but it just wasn't enough. Unlike in Picard Season 1, the Romulans here felt lackluster. The Remens did nothing for me. And Shinzon was boring. B-4 was annoying. The character moments among the TNG crew rise the movie. If someone did a fan-edit that focused on all the character moments, restored all the deleted scenes, and cut all the mind-numbing action scenes by half to two-thirds, it would've made for a much better movie.
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Rankings are Season 3, 1 and then 2.
Yeah. The show really tanked around the last three episodes of season one and never recovered.
3 is the best, though it's the dumbest and just plain goofiest. It succeeded with me in spite of itself.
1 is the next best, though the most well-crafted and intelligent as a story arc. The finale fizzled.
2 is the single worst season of any Trek series since 1987-88.
1 is the next best, though the most well-crafted and intelligent as a story arc. The finale fizzled.
2 is the single worst season of any Trek series since 1987-88.
3, 1, 2.
3 was undiluted fan service, but really is what Picard S1 should've been. Picard, on his own, isn't that special. Everything great about TNG was because of the ensemble, not the leader of that ensemble. Any show featuring just one main character from any Trek show will suffer because of that.
1 was good to see what was happening post-Nemesis but I always thought it suffered from not having more Starfleet in general.
2 was horrendous. Really wasted the potential of having Q back as a character.
3 was undiluted fan service, but really is what Picard S1 should've been. Picard, on his own, isn't that special. Everything great about TNG was because of the ensemble, not the leader of that ensemble. Any show featuring just one main character from any Trek show will suffer because of that.
1 was good to see what was happening post-Nemesis but I always thought it suffered from not having more Starfleet in general.
2 was horrendous. Really wasted the potential of having Q back as a character.
It was actually, with hindsight, one of the better episodes of NuTrek.
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