Star Trek Canon Problems

[BillJ]

If anyone is interested in comics, Marvel did a Pike based TOS prequel in the 90's called Star Trek: Early Voyages. Quite a solid read, and available in a collection.

Star Trek: Early Voyages | Memory Alpha | Fandom

 

[fireproof78]

Not so vocally, at least as it seems to me. It feels like every character has some traumatic childhood experience these days.

Kirk: Tarsus 4.
Spock: bullied, estranged paternal relationship. "So human. "
McCoy: divorced.
Comics had more tragedies for Scotty and McCoy.

Picard: estranged paternal relationship.
Riker: estranged paternal relationship.
Wesley: dad died.
Worf: bullied, fearful of his strength.
Geordi: born blind.

Chakotay: strained paternal relationship.
Tuvok: emotional dysregulation as a child.
Paris: strained emotional relationship with his dad.
B'elanna: divorced parents, bullied,


This is not new.

 

[James Cole]

If anyone is interested in comics, Marvel did a Pike based TOS prequel in the 90's called Star Trek: Early Voyages. Quite a solid read, and available in a collection.

Star Trek: Early Voyages | Memory Alpha | Fandom

Still the definitive take on Pike's Enterprise!

 

[BillJ]

Still the definitive take on Pike's Enterprise!

For some. Other seem to be happy with SNW, which is an equally valid option.

People wonder why one would treat Trek as a multiverse, this is one of the reasons, there are lots and lots of great stories out there that are equally valid to me. Why try to pick and choose? Just enjoy the bounty that we have with Trek.

 

[Disposable_Ensign]

Kirk: Tarsus 4.
Spock: bullied, estranged paternal relationship. "So human. "
McCoy: divorced.
Comics had more tragedies for Scotty and McCoy.

Picard: estranged paternal relationship.
Riker: estranged paternal relationship.
Wesley: dad died.
Worf: bullied, fearful of his strength.
Geordi: born blind.

Chakotay: strained paternal relationship.
Tuvok: emotional dysregulation as a child.
Paris: strained emotional relationship with his dad.
B'elanna: divorced parents, bullied,


This is not new.

Do they mention this every episode? No.

 

[fireproof78]

Do they mention this every episode? No.

Do we have the same amount of episodes? No.

Why try to pick and choose? Just enjoy the bounty that we have with Trek.

Indeed. The apparent need (and I use the term loosely. ) to classify it in discrete categories rather than appreciate the stories.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So, is Mariner or Chapel being bisexual a major violation of canon or simply society starting to accept that LBGQTI+ people exist and are not a sick deviation that was "cured" in the future?

The latter.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk: Tarsus 4.
Spock: bullied, estranged paternal relationship. "So human. "
McCoy: divorced.
Comics had more tragedies for Scotty and McCoy.

Picard: estranged paternal relationship.
Riker: estranged paternal relationship.
Wesley: dad died.
Worf: bullied, fearful of his strength.
Geordi: born blind.

Chakotay: strained paternal relationship.
Tuvok: emotional dysregulation as a child.
Paris: strained emotional relationship with his dad.
B'elanna: divorced parents, bullied,


This is not new.

Maybe this should be the Star Trek theme

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[Cr0sis21]

The latter.

To be fair, early TNG certainly leaned that way.
"Any hat."

 

[cooleddie74]

At least in Trip's defense his sister wasn't killed until he was serving on the NX-01 and she died along with 7 million other people in the same attack. So...yay?

 

[Citiprime]

Kirk: Tarsus 4.
Spock: bullied, estranged paternal relationship. "So human. "
McCoy: divorced.
Comics had more tragedies for Scotty and McCoy.

Picard: estranged paternal relationship.
Riker: estranged paternal relationship.
Wesley: dad died.
Worf: bullied, fearful of his strength.
Geordi: born blind.

Chakotay: strained paternal relationship.
Tuvok: emotional dysregulation as a child.
Paris: strained emotional relationship with his dad.
B'elanna: divorced parents, bullied,


This is not new.

Also, another theme is being an outcast or feeling like an outsider with one's own people, but finding a new home and connections in a new community. That's a recurring theme that's there all the way back to Spock.

At one point in Deep Space Nine, I believe Worf, Odo, Garak and Quark have ALL been formally disowned by their own cultures simultaneously. In addition, the series begins with Sisko feeling alienated from Starfleet and considering resigning, Bashir is hiding a secret that makes him different from everyone else, and Nog sees the flaws in Ferengi society and decides to assimilate Federation values.

I've heard this theme is one of the reasons the franchise has been popular with members of the LGBTQ community. Not only is an underlying theme of Star Trek "it gets better," but also the idea and hope of community where the different can find friends and a place to build a new family even when their own one doesn't want them.

From Futurama's "Where No Fan Has Gone Before":

LEELA: You can't go to Omega 3; it's forbidden! I forbid you!

FRY: But we have to! The world needs Star Trek to give people hope for the future.

LEELA: But it's set 800 years in the past!

BENDER: Yeah, why is this so important to you?

FRY: 'Cause it-it taught me so much. Like how you should accept people, whether they be black, white, Klingon or even female. But most importantly, when I didn't have any friends, it made me feel like maybe I did.
​

 

[Michael]

And when it comes to trans people, how would we know? Cosmetic surgery is very advanced in the 2200's.

The problem I have with this way of thinking (i.e. “maybe there have already been trans people on Trek and we just didn’t recognize them”) is that it ignores the fact that Star Trek is a television show made for a 21st century audience, a cultural artifact of the time it’s made in. It’s not some historical record of the future sent to us from the 24th century. You can’t have meaningful representation of marginalized groups on the television of today if you’re always going to claim that you’re just showing a future where that representation would not be necessary any longer. Imagine how that must sound to a trans person who’s longing to see someone like themself on television.

And since you’re bringing up “cosmetic surgery” in regards to trans people: It’s a common misconception that being trans is all about — and only about — transitioning. Being trans is a gender identity, not merely a way to describe people who are assigned one gender at birth and then later medically transition to another. There’s many trans people who simply never transition, for a multitude of reasons. So equating being trans with doing “cosmetic surgery” is IMHO absolutely the wrong way to think about this. Plus, again, it’s a cheap cop-out to use that as a reason to not have trans representation on Trek.

 

[fireproof78]

I've heard this theme is one of the reasons the franchise has been popular with members of the LGBTQ community. Not only is an underlying theme of Star Trek "it gets better," but also the idea and hope of community where the different can find friends and a place to build a new family even when their own one doesn't want them.

If only that were my experience.

 

[BillJ]

The problem I have with this way of thinking (i.e. “maybe there have already been trans people on Trek and we just didn’t recognize them”) is that it ignores the fact that Star Trek is a television show made for a 21st century audience...

Star Trek was made for a 1960's TV audience, well into TNG's run.

 

[Michael]

Star Trek was made for a 1960's TV audience, well into TNG's run.

Right. So what I should have said is: “The problem I have with this way of thinking (i.e. “maybe there have already been trans people on Trek and we just didn’t recognize them”) is that it ignores the fact that Star Trek is a television show made for a 20th/21st century audience, a cultural artifact of the time it’s made in.”

 

[BillJ]

Right. So what I should have said is: “The problem I have with this way of thinking (i.e. “maybe there have already been trans people on Trek and we just didn’t recognize them”) is that it ignores the fact that Star Trek is a television show made for a 20th/21st century audience, a cultural artifact of the time it’s made in.”

I think Star Trek, the franchise, is just now really realizing it is in the 21st century.

 

[Disposable_Ensign]

And since you’re bringing up “cosmetic surgery” in regards to trans people: It’s a common misconception that being trans is all about — and only about — transitioning. Being trans is a gender identity, not merely a way to describe people who are assigned one gender at birth and then later medically transition to another. There’s many trans people who simply never transition, for a multitude of reasons. So equating being trans with doing “cosmetic surgery” is IMHO absolutely the wrong way to think about this. Plus, again, it’s a cheap cop-out to use that as a reason to not have trans representation on Trek.

I (wrongly) extrapolated from the handful of trans people I know who focus on passing. Either way, without personal conversations about gender identity, how would it come up?

 

[Michael]

I (wrongly) extrapolated from the handful of trans people I know who focus on passing.

Fair enough. I can recommend looking into stuff by trans content creators like Jessie Gender, Lily Alexandre, Natalie Wynn or Abigail Thorn, just to name a few, who have greatly informed and influenced my understanding of the trans experience. Incidentally all four of them have transitioned, but will often talk about the nuances of what being trans actually entails and what some of the misconceptions or harmful stereotypes are.

Either way, without personal conversations about gender identity, how would it come up?

Oh, I’m sure writers can come up with clever solutions to this. I’d say the way they handled Adira being non-binary on Discovery is pretty exemplary in that regard. I mean, if you think about it, they are writing stories for a futuristic science-fiction universe; the possibilities to write something meaningful about trans people are practically endless; you just have to want to do that as a writer.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

If anyone is interested in comics, Marvel did a Pike based TOS prequel in the 90's called Star Trek: Early Voyages. Quite a solid read, and available in a collection.

Star Trek: Early Voyages | Memory Alpha | Fandom

I second this recommendation! And it's all the more fascinating in the light of SNW tackling some of the same story premises. Early Voyages offered its own version of the fight on Rigel VII and what happened to Pike's Yeoman, had an epic time travel story not unlike "A Quality of Mercy" and even had Pike's father appear briefly.

Star Trek was made for a 1960's TV audience, well into TNG's run.

Good point! By the time TNG premiered in 1987, most hour long dramas were in the style of Hill Street Blues, L.A. Law, and St. Elsewhere, with plots of the week and subplots galore. Quite a ways removed from the TOS style of storytelling that TNG continued!

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

By the time TNG premiered in 1987, most hour long dramas were in the style of Hill Street Blues, L.A. Law, and St. Elsewhere, with plots of the week and subplots galore. Quite a ways removed from the TOS style of storytelling that TNG continued!

Just about all fictional TV maxed out their plot-count at two, with the exception of soap operas, which could easily juggle three. But HILL STREET doubled that formula to six and ST. ELSEWHERE stole it to medical perfection. Every HILL STREET would have one or two resolved plots, two starting plots or two continuing ones. The ensemble casts for HILL STREET and ELSEWHERE (around 12-14 each) made it realistically feasible. And excepting that horrifying clip show, they were never boring.