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What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

Yeah, the $46 million spent on TMP and the millions dumped into the failed Phase II project allowed TWOK to maximize story impact and existing set usage and come out ahead. The $13 million spent on that film looked like more because they reused so much from the previous movie right down to stock footage.
 
I can ... kinda... see this.

I do think that if it was a generic sci-fi action movie it probably wouldn't be seen as so bad. I think the fact that it has the Star Trek framework on top of it, and the expectations for what a Star Trek movie should be and the elements for something within this universe with these specific characters contributes to how badly it's seen.

I mean... if these elements were part of a Riddick movie, would people still think of it as awful as they do?

I don’t really think it.

This thread is a great test bed for hot takes. Just get a sizzling opinion, throw it into the ring and see if anyone is willing to run with it.
 
Here’s controversy.

I think the idea for “Star Trek: Legacy”, as it was pitched…is terrible. I genuinely don’t know why fans are clamouring for it other than because nostalgia gives them the “feels”.

I like Seven, and think Jeri Ryan is great. But I don’t think Seven is quite lead character/captain material simply because her character is extremely stoic and introverted. Usually, a more dynamic captain works best; ie, TOS wouldn’t have worked with Spock as captain, it needed the dynamism of Kirk. I also feel like her arc as a character has satisfactorily concluded now.

Secondly, Raffi is a character best in small doses. I don’t even really know how she’s psychologically fit enough to be in Starfleet still, much less a first officer. Also, a captain and first officer who are ex’s…is just not a good idea (just see DS9’s Change of Heart for a demonstration of why). Also, these two characters have no absolutely chemistry despite their past relationship. I’ve only ever seen them bicker and seem as though they low-key dislike each other.

Jack Crusher-Picard…is annoyingly smug and only a part of the crew out of nepotism. He worked fine in PS3 as a mystery box character, but his arrogance is off-putting, not least because the actor looks about 15 years older than the character is meant to be. So, what could be dismissed as youthful immaturity just comes across as semi-dickishness.

The new Enterprise is rather ugly and horribly, horribly lit. I loathed the cinematography of PS3, although that could be changed by simply hiring a new directory of photography—somebody who is not afraid of actually letting us see what’s happening on screen without having to adjust our TV screen settings (which I actually had to).

The other characters? Well, the LaForge daughters didn’t exactly set the screen alight. They were pretty dull and didn’t exactly strike me as compelling characters. Background characters, fine, but that’s about it.

Plus, I’m not sold on Terry Matalas as a writer and show runner. PS3 started off well then the wheels fell off the wagon as they juddered toward the messy climax. I certainly liked elements of the season, but ultimately it was a bit of a mess, substituting both consistent logic and a finely honed plot for increasingly naff and faintly embarrassing nostalgia bait.

If that’s all “Legacy” has to offer, I’m not surprised it hasn’t been greenlit. Sure, the fans want it, but I’ve lost faith in a large part of the fandom. It seems few people want anything new and innovative; they just want callbacks to Berman Trek and to hell with anything else.

Convince me I’m wrong though. I’d happily concede and reevaluate my position.
 
I think the idea for “Star Trek: Legacy”, as it was pitched…is terrible. I genuinely don’t know why fans are clamouring for it other than because nostalgia gives them the “feels”.
At the risk of sounding very superficial but the "feels" is a huge part of what is desired from Star Trek, at least in the vocalized request of fans. The story and the characters take a backseat to "feeling" correct in terms of watching a show. It's not about ideas, or concepts or dynamic stories and characters, but about a comfort level viewing that is comfortable familiar in its setting, tone and design work.

Cases in point from my viewpoint:
  • Season 3: Season 3 relied heavily on nostalgia, but still used the same framework as previous seasons of Picard, and Discovery. It had a mystery box style story, a twist ending with the bad guy not being fully revealed until the last part of the season, characters connected to important characters (contrast Burnham and Spock, vs. Picard and Jack Crusher Jr.) and massive action scenes. It has thoroughly unlikable character in Shaw and that is seen as a virtue not a detriment.
  • Pike (a fan film): so, I became more keenly aware of this concept with Axanar but the Pike fan film was one that stood out to me, especially since it was released relatively close to Discovery and Picard Season 1, and I had heard a lot of the comments of how these shows "were not Star Trek!" due to the darker themes, actions scenes, and difficult characters. Then, this fan film shows a Pike struggling with significant PTSD, an attack on a Starfleet post, Pike having an alcohol problem, and fighting off intruders. The comments around the video? How this was "true Trek" due to having the right uniforms and set design.
tl:dr-people want the feels. They don't want to think about Star Trek.
 
tl:dr-people want the feels. They don't want to think about Star Trek.

What feels are we talking about?

I think there is a difference between something "feeling like Star Trek" and the nostalgic feeling one gets by revisiting past characters.

A lot of Trek fans feel that The Orville felt like Star Trek. This is different than fans that feel Picard Season 3 was the best because it got the gang back together again.

I'd rather something feel like Star Trek with completely new characters instead of playing on my feelings of nostalgia. Trek is about a positive, forward focused future so I'd rather it not lean heavily on the past. The underlying themes, archetypes, moral, meanings, and messages are timeless and are not reliant on having a ship named Enterprise or a captain named Picard.
 
I think Nemesis is the worst Trek movie. Yes even worse than Into Darkness.
Nemesis bores the heck out of me. I fall asleep watching it. No other Trek movie bores me like that.
 
I like Seven, and think Jeri Ryan is great. But I don’t think Seven is quite lead character/captain material simply because her character is extremely stoic and introverted. Usually, a more dynamic captain works best; ie, TOS wouldn’t have worked with Spock as captain, it needed the dynamism of Kirk. I also feel like her arc as a character has satisfactorily concluded now.

Her personality would be quite fine to lead a show if she was still a Fenris Ranger on the edge of the Romulan Free State.

Secondly, Raffi is a character best in small doses. I don’t even really know how she’s psychologically fit enough to be in Starfleet still, much less a first officer. Also, a captain and first officer who are ex’s…is just not a good idea (just see DS9’s Change of Heart for a demonstration of why).

Worf and Jadzia weren’t exes.

Also, these two characters have no absolutely chemistry despite their past relationship. I’ve only ever seen them bicker and seem as though they low-key dislike each other.

There’s been no serious effort to develop the relationship beyond bickering. They held hands at the end of PIC S1, and then it went nowhere. They went all though S2 and not once did Seven bring up the loss of Icheb to show she sympathized with Raffi over the loss of Elnor.

ack Crusher-Picard…is annoyingly smug and only a part of the crew out of nepotism. He worked fine in PS3 as a mystery box character, but his arrogance is off-putting, not least because the actor looks about 15 years older than the character is meant to be. So, what could be dismissed as youthful immaturity just comes across as semi-dickishness.

He’s supposed to be well worn due to roughing it.

The new Enterprise is rather ugly and horribly, horribly lit.

They should have either kept the Stargazer from S2. Or give viewers the actual Luna-class Titan, instead of their Shangri-La class substitute.

Even when it revealed that the Titan-A was rechristened the Ent-G, it could have been named after Picard, so that PIC could continue on for another couple of season without Patrick Stewart, or any talk of Legacy. Not to mention that it could have been named after Liam Shaw as well.

The other characters? Well, the LaForge daughters didn’t exactly set the screen alight. They were pretty dull and didn’t exactly strike me as compelling characters. Background characters, fine, but that’s about it.

They did try with Sydney at least. There just was not enough time to do more.

Plus, I’m not sold on Terry Matalas as a writer and show runner. PS3 started off well then the wheels fell off the wagon as they juddered toward the messy climax. I certainly liked elements of the season, but ultimately it was a bit of a mess, substituting both consistent logic and a finely honed plot for increasingly naff and faintly embarrassing nostalgia bait.

There’s certainly room for improvement when it comes to S3. Riker in the first few episodes should have been a Changeling or Tom Riker masquerading as Will Riker. Vadic should have never returned from the gravity well, and the rest of her appearances in the season should have been filled by Kira, or a Changeling that looked like Kira. They should have referenced whether Elnor survived or not when the Excelsior was destroyed, and the Jurati Borg and the transwarp hub. They could have had a cameo appearance of the bluegill parasites when Admiral Shelby was shot. Armus as the big bad instead of the Borg would have felt fresh. They did not need to rush through the fates of the Ent-E and Ent-F to get to the Ent-G to set up Legacy, when Legacy wasn’t a certain thing even then. The Ent-E should have got some screen time, and then Seven takes command of the Ent-F at the end. They did not need to kill Shaw. And Data should have met Soji.

But I think Matalas did the best he could considering the circumstances.

Even if Armus was revealed to be the big bad instead of the Borg Queen, there would be fans would be wondering why the final boss was Armus, when the Borg was the TNG crew’s and specifically Picard’s biggest adversary. And the addition of the bluegill parasites may have made the finale more confusing for some, even I personally think it would have been an interesting twist.

And they did not know how popular Shaw was going to be with the fans. If they did, I’m sure he would have lived.
 
There’s been no serious effort to develop the relationship beyond bickering. They held hands at the end of PIC S1, and then it went nowhere. They went all though S2 and not once did Seven bring up the loss of Icheb to show she sympathized with Raffi over the loss of Elnor.
I'm a little surprised that more fans aren't up in arms over what a non-relationship they had. Spock and Chapel on SNW had a long term thing by comparison.
 
I'm a little surprised that more fans aren't up in arms over what a non-relationship they had. Spock and Chapel on SNW had a long term thing by comparison.
Relationships in Star Trek really are a non thing. Being up in arms over it is just strange. They don't do relationships all that well.
 
While I do agree TAS was too short on run time, that's a thing with animation. And if you look at LDS and PRODIGY, short run times can still bring out great quality.

TAS brought a lot of great ideas to life, and made very interesting stories. More so than either PICARD or DISCO.
Nope.
 
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