Spoilers Star Trek: Picard General Discussion Thread

[Gaith]

maybe familiarize yourself with the backstory again: locutus was unique. see BoBW. see FC.

Yes, he was unique in that the Borg gave him a name, and the Borg Queen had the hots for him. But that doesn't explain why the contents of his brain matter allowed them to do something no other dron - sorry, I forgot, it was his midichlorians, wasn't it. Picard has a very high midichlorian count, I guess.

As I said before: "I never said one couldn't head-canon answers to these questions. I'm saying that all these answers, however, are really dumb."

if you take out the element that his corpse was stolen, does the season somehow become much better for you?

No, it's still a mostly grueling, eight-hour grimdark slog of bad writing, comically dim sets, and mindless pew-pew-pew action before it turns into a mediocre First Contact remake.

 

[Quinton]

Yes, he was unique in that the Borg gave him a name, and the Borg Queen had the hots for him. But that doesn't explain why the contents of his brain matter allowed them to do something no other dron - sorry, I forgot, it was his midichlorians, wasn't it. Picard has a very high midichlorian count, I guess.

As I said before: "I never said one couldn't head-canon answers to these questions. I'm saying that all these answers, however, are really dumb."

No, it's still a mostly grueling, eight-hour grimdark slog of bad writing, comically dim sets, and mindless pew-pew-pew action before it turns into a mediocre First Contact remake.

Personally, I think it’s a far superior version of First Contact.

 

[fireproof78]

Unfortunately, this season doubled down with an error that Voyager and First Contact established and this making the Borg far more myopic than they had ever been before. The Queen was obsessed with finding an another as a partner, which undercuts the whole creating a collective. The Queen is focused on getting Seven back, and getting Picard back, and then needs Picard's brain thing to continue on.

It's very strange.

 

[Quinton]

Unfortunately, this season doubled down with an error that Voyager and First Contact established and this making the Borg far more myopic than they had ever been before. The Queen was obsessed with finding an another as a partner, which undercuts the whole creating a collective. The Queen is focused on getting Seven back, and getting Picard back, and then needs Picard's brain thing to continue on.

It's very strange.

While I’ve never personally minded the Queen - I think she’s brought out some fine work from Patrick Stewart, Jeri Ryan, and especially Kate Mulgrew - the relative eradication of the Borg’s original and more terrifying concept is pretty frigging weird, yeah.

Weirder still to me whenever I remember that the Borg as initially presented only lasted for about seven years. It’s been 28 since the Queen was introduced!

 

[evilchumlee]

While I’ve never personally minded the Queen - I think she’s brought out some fine work from Patrick Stewart, Jeri Ryan, and especially Kate Mulgrew - the relative eradication of the Borg’s original and more terrifying concept is pretty frigging weird, yeah.

I understand the WHY of the Borg Queen.

Without the Borg Queen, or a similar stand-in, there is little to do with the Borg. Space Zombies, cool. It's fun once or twice. Do the Hugh thing, neat. Pretty much what they did in TNG. Without the Queen, you could also do some Seven of Nine stuff, although it's really just Hugh 2: Delta Boogaloo.

The Queen gives the Borg characterization, and an antagonist. Otherwise they are just a force of nature, which can be cool in and of itself, but fairly limited in what can be done with it.

My biggest gripe about the Queen is that they don't follow through with what seems to be alluded to with her, that she isn't a "Being that controls the Collective", she... IS the Collective, a single individual made manifest by the Collective itself to bring order. It's part of why she can just... come back. As long as the Collective exists, the Queen exists. It's made somewhat more complex by the fact that the Queen does, however... become a sentient individual, so any particular Queen isn't exactly in a hurry to die... yeah there will be always be A Queen, and the new Queen should functionally have all the memory and experience of the old one, but will be a distinct new being.

I think it would be more interesting if they REALLY explored that, short of just "I am the Borg" and moving on.

 

[Gaith]

Without the Borg Queen, or a similar stand-in, there is little to do with the Borg. Space Zombies, cool. It's fun once or twice. Do the Hugh thing, neat. Pretty much what they did in TNG. Without the Queen, you could also do some Seven of Nine stuff, although it's really just Hugh 2: Delta Boogaloo.

The Queen gives the Borg characterization, and an antagonist. Otherwise they are just a force of nature, which can be cool in and of itself, but fairly limited in what can be done with it.

100%, which is why Voyager should have finished them off for good.

It's ironic that Picard, who was always intended to be the most cerebral/intellectual/cultured of captains, gets repeatedly matched to a Big Bad of a Borg Queen that, for all her bluster, ultimately has just about zero sophistication or subtlety. I get why the First Contact team felt they had to give the Borg at least one big-screen story, but I wish Picard Season 3 had had the imagination to go with a different antagonist.

 

[Dukhat]

100%, which is why Voyager should have finished them off for good.

Actually, they should have been finished off for good in BoBW. Or at the very least, after they met Hugh and instead of being all moral and not injecting him with the computer virus, inject him and send him back to the collective. Because every instance of the Borg showing up after that was just a downhill spiral. The entire concept of the Borg queen just diluted their threat.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Borg had one truly shining moment after "Scorpion, Parts I and II(VOY)," and that's "Regeneration(ENT)," a prequel story spun off from the 21st century events of FC that doesn't even mention the Collective by name. Everything since has been meh or downright bad.

 

[Nyotarules]

I'm rewatching the Picard season 1 Absolute Candor, one of the best Picard episodes

 

[Tuskin38]

Actually, they should have been finished off for good in BoBW. Or at the very least, after they met Hugh and instead of being all moral and not injecting him with the computer virus, inject him and send him back to the collective. Because every instance of the Borg showing up after that was just a downhill spiral. The entire concept of the Borg queen just diluted their threat.

You want the Federation to commit genocide?

 

[Dukhat]

You want the Federation to commit genocide?

In order to stop the Borg from doing the same thing? Yes.

 

[Tuskin38]

In order to stop the Borg from doing the same thing? Yes.

Genocide is never the correct option.

 

[Dukhat]

Genocide is never the correct option.

Tell that to Future Admiral Janeway.

Except it's not really genocide. It's a computer virus. It would disable the machine part of the Borg. For all we know it would sever the organic side from the collective just like what happened to the XBs.

 

[Tuskin38]

Tell that to Future Admiral Janeway.

Except it's not really genocide. It's a computer virus. It would disable the machine part of the Borg. For all we know it would sever the organic side from the collective just like what happened to the XBs.

It was wrong when she did it, it was wrong when Section 31 did it to the Founders.

Maybe they would have adapted like they did with Admiral Janeway's virus, but we don't know that for sure.

 

[HotRod]

Didn't Janeway basically do that?

Here's a question..... can you commit genocide against the Borg? Are the Borg a race? An ethnicity? A culture?

Wouldn’t destroying the Borg be more akin to wiping out a virus?

 

[Tuskin38]

Didn't Janeway basically do that?

Here's a question..... can you commit genocide against the Borg? Are the Borg a race? An ethnicity? A culture?

Wouldn’t destroying the Borg be more akin to wiping out a virus?

There's entire species are that are part of the Borg, so yes, you would be wiping them out with the collective.

 

[Dukhat]

There's entire species are that are part of the Borg, so yes, you would be wiping them out.

And if those species that were assimilated had a choice, I'd bet they'd choose to be wiped out.

 

[Tuskin38]

And if those species that were assimilated had a choice, I'd bet they'd choose to be wiped out.

The people in Unimatrix Zero didn't feel that way. They'd rather be free.

 

[Dukhat]

The people in Unimatrix Zero didn't feel that way. They'd rather be free.

Free from being Borg, you mean?

It was wrong when she did it, it was wrong when Section 31 did it to the Founders.

Bit of a difference there. The Founders weren't soulless cybernetic beings who couldn't be reasoned with who were made up of species that were made part of the collective against their will, with only one goal being to assimilate more unwilling people.

 

[Tuskin38]

Free from being Borg, you mean?



Bit of a difference there. The Founders weren't soulless cybernetic beings who couldn't be reasoned with who were made up of species that were made part of the collective against their will, with only one goal being to assimilate more unwilling people.

Still doesn't excuse genocide.