Spoilers Star Trek: Picard General Discussion Thread

[Tiran O'Saurus]

Woah, really? Does anyone know what happened in that comic so we can compare it to Season 3? Judging by the cover, it had a bunch of Borgs and 7, so that much is the same. But it looks like instead of the Titan-A we had the Enterprise-E, so the timeframe might have been different.

 

[Tuskin38]

Woah, really? Does anyone know what happened in that comic so we can compare it to Season 3? Judging by the cover, it had a bunch of Borgs and 7, so that much is the same. But it looks like instead of the Titan-A we had the Enterprise-E, so the timeframe might have been different.

They’re nothing alike other than having the Borg

 

[The Wormhole]

Woah, really? Does anyone know what happened in that comic so we can compare it to Season 3? Judging by the cover, it had a bunch of Borgs and 7, so that much is the same. But it looks like instead of the Titan-A we had the Enterprise-E, so the timeframe might have been different.

They're nothing similar at all. Hive starts off in a distant future where the Borg have conquered the galaxy, ruled over by the Queen and King Locutus. King Locutus has grown disillusioned with Borg perfection, and has recreated Data to help him assassinate the Borg Queen and put into motion a plan to change the timeline to prevent Borg domination of the galaxy. We then shift to the 24th century, a few years after Nemesis, where the Borg Collective is seeking to establish diplomatic relations with the Federation in the interests in fighting a new enemy that poses a threat to the galaxy which the Borg can't assimilate. Starfleet assembles a task force which consists of the Enterprise E and the Titan, the Luna class one which even includes the same crew as in the novels such as Commander Vale and Tuvok. Seven also gets in contact, having been placed undercover within the Borg Collective since shortly after Voyager returned home. Future Data shows up pretty much right at the same moment everyone else figures out the whole thing is a ploy so the Borg Collective can destroy the Federation. Everyone works together to thwart the Borg's plan, though Seven ends up getting killed. Since his timeline no longer exists, Future Data ceases to exist, but before he does he provides information on how to revive his consciousness from B-4, which is presumably done, though we never know for sure.

 

[Jayson1]

It's time to simply relax and embrace how good Picard season 3 was. It gave TNG fans the perfect bon voyage before going into Trek retirement forever, minus a few cameos, here and their. It finally erased the mistake that was Nemesis to boot.

 

[Lord Garth]

It was influenced by the comic book series Hive, which Matalas wrote.

I stopped reading comics in 2011. And even then, leading up to that, I stuck with Batman. As soon as the New 52 started, I was out. But I'll to give this comic a look.

Wait, that's not entirely true. I did read the Countdown to Picard IDW had, leading up to the series. But, yeah. I'll give Hive a look. Thanks!

 

[Alexander Corrino]

It's time to simply relax and embrace how good Picard season 3 was. It gave TNG fans the perfect bon voyage before going into Trek retirement forever, minus a few cameos, here and their. It finally erased the mistake that was Nemesis to boot.

Nah, this TNG fan here prefers Nemesis (and that says a lot, given how I'm usually not a fan of Nemesis at all). It's precisely BECAUSE I'm a TNG fan that I'm not fond of the plot-hole riddled nostalgia bait aka PIC season 3.

 

[NCC-73515]

What are the holes in S3?

 

[Lord Garth]

In a situation like this, I ignore the Internet and look at my base reactions as I'm watching. Actions and reactions speak louder than words.

When I went to see Nemesis in the theater in 2002, I didn't like what I saw, and came out of there upset. I didn't watch the movie again until 2010 (eight years!!!!), and my opinion of it went up marginally, but I still felt depressed. The only thing that truly took the sting out of Nemesis was that Picard made it no longer the end of the story.

When I watched Picard Season 3, I had a blast, and have already re-watched it. The only actual TNG movie I really liked was First Contact, and I felt like PIC S3 corrected all of the TNG Movies' mistakes. If I treat PIC Season 3 like the second half of the TNG Movie Series, it salvages them as a whole.

 

[fireproof78]

Nah, this TNG fan here prefers Nemesis (and that says a lot, given how I'm usually not a fan of Nemesis at all). It's precisely BECAUSE I'm a TNG fan that I'm not fond of the plot-hole riddled nostalgia bait aka PIC season 3.

I'm giving this a like because, while I don't 100% agree, I appreciate the different point of view.

And I will say, because it needs repeating, Picard season 3 is fun. Just not top tier.

 

[Lord Garth]

To illustrate how I think PIC Season 3 salvages the TNG Movies as a whole, this is how I see it:

There's now a meta-arc across the TNG Films and PIC S3 where what's established as normal is disrupted in Act I (GEN). Best exemplified by the destruction of the Enterprise-D and Picard's outlook changing after the combination of finding out what happened to his family and getting to meet Kirk.

The Enterprise-E is introduced, Picard resembles his TNG self less and less, Starfleet changes (alluded to during the movies but actually seen in DS9), and it leads up to a point of no return as the crew is broken up. FC through NEM make up the first half of Act II, leading up to the Midpoint.

Then Picard has to rebound and get the crew back together as Starfleet is slowly taken over by the Changelings and the Borg, and things look their worst (first eight episodes of PIC Season 3), which makes up the second half of Act II.

Then Picard and his crew are back on the Enterprise-D and save the Federation from its worst enemies one last time, assisted by the Titan. Just like Kirk and his crew on the Enterprise-A save the Federation from its worst enemies one last time, assisted by the Excelsior. This makes up Act III.

If you set aside TMP (which is unconnected to the rest of the movies) and TFF (which is filler): II-IV and VI gave the TOS Movies an overall arc of their own as well. And, IMO, the TNG Movies now have that too.

EDITED TO ADD: Might as well throw this in as well. In "Act I" of the TNG Movies, Picard thinks he's now the end of his line after his brother and nephew are killed. "There will be no more Picards." In "Act II", Picard finds out he actually has a son, so it's not the end of the line. Then, in "Act III", unlike with David, Jack isn't killed off. So now Picard has an opportunity to spend time with Jack, which the very end of PIC Season 3 implies happened in the "one year later" scenes.

 

[Tiran O'Saurus]

I wouldn't mind that as much if it was a) an actual movie, and b) NOT CALLED THE THIRD SEASON OF A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SHOW!

First off, aping the TOS movies isn't a great story idea, but whatever. Unoriginality is the least of our concerns. The real problem is that this isn't "Star Trek XI: The Wrath of Borg" or whatever. It's season three of Star Trek: Picard, a show we only got one season of. Season two was two things: an excuse to build sets for three, and a way to remove everything that made season one good from the playing field. Season one established a world in which the Federation had retreated inwards, and Picard with it. But he built a new crew on a new ship for one last adventure and went back out there, the season ending with him and the La Sirena flying off into the space-sunset.

Then season two comes along and yells "Wrong!" Rios gave his beloved La Sirena to Seven and became a Starfleet captain, Soji went on a bus to elsewhere and was never mentioned again, Picard rejoined Starfleet offscreen -which he swore to never do- and so on. Then they went back in time and left behind everyone except Raffi, Seven, and JL himself.

Season three had nothing to do with either of these seasons, and was your "last TNG 'movie'" despite having no right to do so, as it wasn't a TNG movie, it was a Picard season. And Picard, despite the name, was about more than just the man. But they killed all that to do one last hurrah to something Picard had originally avoided for good reason.

 

[Lord Garth]

I wouldn't mind that as much if it was a) an actual movie, and b) NOT CALLED THE THIRD SEASON OF A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SHOW!

First off, aping the TOS movies isn't a great story idea, but whatever. Unoriginality is the least of our concerns. The real problem is that this isn't "Star Trek XI: The Wrath of Borg" or whatever. It's season three of Star Trek: Picard, a show we only got one season of. Season two was two things: an excuse to build sets for three, and a way to remove everything that made season one good from the playing field. Season one established a world in which the Federation had retreated inwards, and Picard with it. But he built a new crew on a new ship for one last adventure and went back out there, the season ending with him and the La Sirena flying off into the space-sunset.

Then season two comes along and yells "Wrong!" Rios gave his beloved La Sirena to Seven and became a Starfleet captain, Soji went on a bus to elsewhere and was never mentioned again, Picard rejoined Starfleet offscreen -which he swore to never do- and so on. Then they went back in time and left behind everyone except Raffi, Seven, and JL himself.

Season three had nothing to do with either of these seasons, and was your "last TNG 'movie'" despite having no right to do so, as it wasn't a TNG movie, it was a Picard season. And Picard, despite the name, was about more than just the man. But they killed all that to do one last hurrah to something Picard had originally avoided for good reason.

Good points, but let me add this one, then I'm done.

The show is called Star Trek: Picard, not Star Trek: La Sirena. If it was called the latter, I'd agree with you. But because it's the former, we have to look at all aspects of his life including his childhood, his family, the Stargazer, the Enterprise, and his time as an Admiral.

All are represented over the three seasons of Picard, but he considers his time on the Enterprise to be the highest point of his life. Indeed, at the beginning of Season 1, before the news story with Picard, when they're showing highlights of Picard, they're from his time on the Enterprise. I imagine the Enterprise was more prestigious than the Stargazer. Having been Captain of the Enterprise is what he's most famous for, including in-universe. So, this should be proportionately reflected in Picard.

I'll leave it there. That's the case I wanted to make.

 

[Tuskin38]

Terry did want to have a scene between New Data and Soji, but couldn't fit it in.

 

[Tiran O'Saurus]

Okay, but that would have still been to benefit Data's character, not Soji's. Strictly speaking, the La Sirena is in Season 3. It's just that it's only purpose is to be something for Worf to fly around in. Matalas kept some of the Picard trappings, but he wasn't telling the same story.

 

[eschaton]

I wouldn't mind that as much if it was a) an actual movie, and b) NOT CALLED THE THIRD SEASON OF A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SHOW!

First off, aping the TOS movies isn't a great story idea, but whatever. Unoriginality is the least of our concerns. The real problem is that this isn't "Star Trek XI: The Wrath of Borg" or whatever. It's season three of Star Trek: Picard, a show we only got one season of. Season two was two things: an excuse to build sets for three, and a way to remove everything that made season one good from the playing field. Season one established a world in which the Federation had retreated inwards, and Picard with it. But he built a new crew on a new ship for one last adventure and went back out there, the season ending with him and the La Sirena flying off into the space-sunset.

Then season two comes along and yells "Wrong!" Rios gave his beloved La Sirena to Seven and became a Starfleet captain, Soji went on a bus to elsewhere and was never mentioned again, Picard rejoined Starfleet offscreen -which he swore to never do- and so on. Then they went back in time and left behind everyone except Raffi, Seven, and JL himself.

Season three had nothing to do with either of these seasons, and was your "last TNG 'movie'" despite having no right to do so, as it wasn't a TNG movie, it was a Picard season. And Picard, despite the name, was about more than just the man. But they killed all that to do one last hurrah to something Picard had originally avoided for good reason.

Yeah, as I said upthread, Season 3 not only had little to do with Seasons 1 and 2, it aggressively undid them, and even backhandedly insulted them (like when the Rikers talked about never liking that "hippie planet" of Nepenthe).

Just bringing back the Borg alone was such a groan, considering Season 1 established the Borg were gone, and just a marginalized group of refugees, and then Season 2 introduced alt "good Borg" that we will never see again.

To me, that was by far the most irritating aspect of the season. Absolutely nothing logically followed through on what was established before. Other than Seven and Raffi being in the show, and maybe a single (?) joke related to Picard having a synth body, there was zero continuity.

Of course, there was also barely any continuity to speak of between Seasons 1 and 2, but that's another concern entirely.

 

[Jayson1]

While I like season 1 and think it was decent I think season 2 was so bad I can see why people would want to sort of hand wave over and pretend it didn' happen. Also lets not forget the Borg are not really back in season 3. The Queen was basically living on a dead ship and most of her drones were dead. She was still feeling the impact of what Janeway did to the Borg in that shows series final. Now the Queen is powerful enough that even after mostly being defeated she is still a danger as we see in this show. Like that ole wounded animal metaphor.

 

[Tuskin38]

and even backhandedly insulted them (like when the Rikers talked about never liking that "hippie planet" of Nepenthe).

It wasn't intended to be an insult.
The writer of that Season 3 episode said Nepenthe was his favourite Season 1 episode.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

...and maybe a single (?) joke related to Picard having a synth body, there was zero continuity.

Wasn't the whole plot dedicated to the bad guys stealing Picard's dead body from season 1 to weaponize their findings in the transporters?

 

[fireproof78]

While I like season 1 and think it was decent I think season 2 was so bad I can see why people would want to sort of hand wave over and pretend it didn' happen. Also lets not forget the Borg are not really back in season 3. The Queen was basically living on a dead ship and most of her drones were dead. She was still feeling the impact of what Janeway did to the Borg in that shows series final. Now the Queen is powerful enough that even after mostly being defeated she is still a danger as we see in this show. Like that ole wounded animal metaphor.

And hiding in plain sight.

Starfleet security is not looking great.

 

[The Wormhole]

Starfleet security is not looking great.

They never are.