They probably don't know it's fake.
Where is the proof that it was fake?
How would you re-imagine and reboot Enterprise?
- Thread starter Jedi Marso
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Where is the proof that it was fake?
Yup. We've seen repeatedly that historical records can be corrupted or hidden for quite a variety of reasons, and it was established way back in S1 of TNG that it is a just loose approximations - look at "we'll always have paris" where IRL it was raining on that day, but in the holodeck recreation it was nice out - and i'm sure there was a record of the weather in Paris on that date, somewhere in the Federation intrawebs....
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Except that’s not what was implied in TATV. What was implied was that this was an accurate historical record of the events aboard the NX-01 right before its decommissioning. Riker and Troi did not question anything about its historical accuracy, and even went out of their way to say that this was exactly how Trip Tucker died.
We could be pretty sure that what we think happened 200 years ago is accurate, but there is absolutely no way of telling.
It was the whole point of "Living Witness" as well.
Thinking and knowing are two different things.
As far as Riker and Troi know (and by default, the viewing audience), what was depicted in the hologram was an accurate depiction of what happened. There has never been anything in canon Trek to contradict that stance. QED.
But there is also been nothing in Canon trek to imply it waw anything more than a holo program.
But until there's something said or shown in canon that says that's the case, the audience has to accept what is shown on screen at face value. Believe me, there's nothing that I would like more than for that to happen, but as I said before, nobody seems at all interested in retconning the events of TATV.
"Has to"? Nope. Troi and Riker believing a holo program doesn't mean it was accurate. Having Federation Officials say it happened that way doesn't mean it did - coulda been propaganda, preferred history rather than accurate history. Although portraying all the crew completely out of character and Trip a suicidal idiot doesn't much make sense, but whatever. I still maintain Barclay got drunk and messed with the programming.
And ahem @Dukhat, I thought you weren't going to say any more about "no one is interested in retconning TATV." Please have mercy on that poor dead horse and lay it to rest. Your fellow members have every right to re-imagine. Thank you.
It took 28 years to finally get a retcon to Generations..... there is time.....
What retcon?
First of all, I want to make it clear that this is a fictional show, and people can believe whatever they want. I myself believe DSC/SNW takes place in a different continuity than TOS/TNG, despite the intent of the producers of those shows. If someone wants to believe that the events of TATV didn't really happen like what the holoprogram showed, that's fine. All I am saying is that that was not the intent of the people who made that episode, and that there's been no canon proof to the contrary.
Fine, I'm done here.
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"The Menagerie" came from reusing footage from "The Cage". "Trials and Tribble-ations" - which celebrated the 30th anniversary of Star Trek - came from reusing footage from "The Trouble With Tribbles". Who knows what can come from taking the footage from TATV and re-framing the events displayed in that episode if left in the hands of SNW?
Then I suggest “Trials and Tribble-ations” is really a bad example of what you think / wish they might do with “These Are the Voyages”, because “reusing footage” doesn't quite cut it as a description of what that episode did. They went to great lengths reconstructing sets, models, costumes and visual effects and inserted their characters in the old tribbles episode and made it a full-blown, unabashed loveletter to that classic episode. They might at some point mention the events of TATV (although I seriously doubt they will do even that). But I’m convinced there will never be something like “Trials and Tribble-ations” for “These Are the Voyages”.
Actually, its a great example. But go on.
Yes, I know.
Whatever sets, models, and costumes would be created for the episode to retcon TATV, based on the pattern of other recent Trek shows, all of them are auctioned off within five years.
Yes. It’s known as the Forrest Gump effect.
They also inserted Sisko in place of Marlena Moreau from “Mirror, Mirror” for him to talk to Kirk.
Whereas this would be a love letter to ENT. And Trek as a whole too, if they want it to be.
Technology has come a long way since “Trials and Tribble-ations”. And the people behind “Trials and Tribble-ations” pulled it off with a far more limited budget than the Trek productions of today.
You are talking about a 60 minute episode at least. And at most a 2 hour tv movie. And then we move on, regardless if ENT is revived for a sequel series or not. But that chapter will be closed, with a more satisfying goodbye for ENT is there is no more exploration in this era.
I’ve thought this out more than you realize.
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So what? I’m not saying they somehow couldn’t technically make such an episode nor have I ever said that. I’m just saying that there’s no reason they would ever do that, since the episode you want them to revisit is almost universally seen as one of the biggest disappointments this franchise has ever had. It’s certainly not the worst Trek episode ever, heck it’s probably not even Enterprise’s worst. But if you consider that it was the show’s finale (and to some extent the finale for a whole decade of Trek), expectations were understandably high. And boy, did they disappoint. What makes you think they would ever go out of their way of not only referencing that episode, but dedicating a special homage to it?
They’d sooner Forrest Gump their characters into scenes from “Threshold”, make a loving homage to “Code of Honor” or do frickin’ “Shades of Gray — The Movie”.
What’s funny is that you apparently seem to think this is a case of you somehow being treated differently, when in actuality (1) @HopefulRomantic hasn't even been online since I wrote that post and hence couldn’t tell me anything to begin with and (2) did not tell you to “shut up” in the first place.Funny. I said essentially the same thing and got told to shut up. Go figure, huh?
As far as I can see you said here: “Of course I realize that this topic is about how one would reimagine and reboot ENT, so I’m not going to say any more about the reality of that.”, which @HopefulRomantic — in what I read as a light-hearted manner — reminded you of (“I thought you weren't going to say any more about "no one is interested in retconning TATV.”) and then kindly asked you to let “your fellow members have [the] right to re-imagine.”
That’s not telling you to “shut up”. And I’m sure she would eventually ask me to drop the issue too if she thought I was starting to “beat a dead horse”. No-one is out to get you, okay?
It stunk because Berman did not want to rewrite it, not because the concept itself was bad. Even critics of TATV acknowledge it would have been okay for a season finale. It just did not suit a series finale.
Also, you and maybe a couple of others seem to be stuck on the idea that it would be a homage to the episode, instead of turning it into a homage to the show. If you aren’t confident in them doing a homage to ENT correctly, then say that. But don’t act like the episode can’t be done over with what’s already there.
I mean, my main difficulty with TATV is that it doesn't fit right with The Pegasus episode. The framing device is poor, and so the episode itself flows poorly from that framing device. It also did poorly in that all the emotional punch from the previous episode was sucked out between Trip and T'Pol. It's dismissed out of hand as most emotionally weighty things were in that era.
If you want to homage the show the better idea is to move completely away from TATV and focus on the other adventures.
If you want to homage the show the better idea is to move completely away from TATV and focus on the other adventures.
Even then, I would not see an issue, and could make a Trials and Tribble-ations episode. “The Pegasus” + Riker ad Troi’s scenes on the Ent-D from TATV + some new scenes at Starbase 247 prior to and after the court martial from the perspective of the JAGs.
While it would make "The Pegasus" the two parter that it originally was supposed to be, it does not fix the ENT parts of TATV.
Revisiting TATV could allow for an opportunity to fix this. And no, you do not need Trip and T’Pol to even interact with each other to fix it. You could even include Lorian in the story, as he’d only be in his early 100s during SNW.
You think I should focus on a different adventure. I choose to look at TATV as an incomplete one.
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