News WB/Paramount merger talks

[The Wormhole]

Zaslav could oust Kurtzman just for being connected with JJ Abrams.

Kurtzman and Abrams haven't worked together in years. I doubt even Zaslav is the kind of person to fire someone just because of who they worked with at some point in the past.

I look forward to the fandom reminiscing about the good old days of Kurtzman Trek.

Yep. Whoever takes control of the franchise next is going to have the fans whine and go on about about how they spit all over canon and continuity, don't understand Gene's Vision and can't design proper ships or uniforms or whatever and everyone will suddenly remember how Kurtzman got it right and was the franchise's true friend.

 

[HotRod]

Same here.

And a lot of other content we both enjoy.

Oh definitely. Fringe was one of our favourite shows for awhile. And The Force Awakens is a good movie. Say nothing of all the things he's had his hands in. He's clearly a talented individual, no matter what some idiots on the internet say.

 

[Danja]

Yep. Whoever takes control of the franchise next is going to have the fans whine and go on about about how they spit all over canon and continuity, don't understand Gene's Vision and can't design proper ships or uniforms or whatever and everyone will suddenly remember how Kurtzman got it right and was the franchise's true friend.

Lather, rinse, repeat ...

 

[James Cole]

Kurtzman and Abrams haven't worked together in years. I doubt even Zaslav is the kind of person to fire someone just because of who they worked with at some point in the past.

Again, this is a hypothetical, plus there's no point making paragraph after paragraph of exhaustive legalese laying out a case that can be summed up in a sentence or two. JJ Abrams made a lot of money charging upfront production fees. If Kurtzman followed a similar model, and was a mixed bag of revenue for the studio... the reason Zaslav ended one deal could easily apply to a similar deal at another company.

Lather, rinse, repeat ...

The Abrams films don't seem to have been rehabilitated... people that didn't like them then still don't seem to like them now. At best you have grudging appreciation that ST09 at least explicitly set out an alternate universe to not mess with the existing continuity, or that STB was the most "Star Trek" of the three films with some coached appreciation.

People gaining greater appreciation after the fact for DS9 / VGR / ENT kinda makes sense, as they were at least designed to target similar audiences. DISCOVERY was designed to target a very different audience, even season to season. But, this thread isn't about relitigating all of NuTrek, so best to acknowledge and move on.

 

[HotRod]

People gaining greater appreciation after the fact for DS9 / VGR / ENT kinda makes sense, as they were at least designed to target similar audiences. DISCOVERY was designed to target a very different audience, even season to season.

I'd love to hear what Discovery's target audience is compared to the rest of Trek.

 

[Dukhat]

So do I. He made the only Trek film that my wife has ever enjoyed. She occasionally still watches it with me.

No small feat.

Love him or hate him, JJ Abrams is single-handedly responsible for showing CBS that Star Trek was still a viable property even after ENT essentially killed it off for TV and Nemesis killed it off for films. Anyone who wants to debate that fact has a hole in their heads.

 

[HotRod]

Love him or hate him, JJ Abrams is single-handedly responsible for showing CBS that Star Trek was still a viable property even after ENT essentially killed it off for TV and Nemesis killed it off for films. Anyone who wants to debate that fact has a hole in their heads.

Absolutely.

 

[Noname Given]

Bit of an aside, but I saw this morning that Paramount has pulled all of the non-Kelvin movies off of Paramount+, and has licensed them to be back on Netflix and/or Max.

This seems the start of the unwinding into being another Sony - just a content provider for other services.

No...it's part of an agreement they made back during the early ST Discovery days (when they were still CBSAA and co producing it with Netflix.

They were leveraging licensing income for one of their popular IPs. This isn't the first time those films went to HBO MAX & Netflix for a time period.

 

[eschaton]

I do.

I don't hate ST09 at all. My point is Abrams hasn't done anything since The Rise of Skywalker in 2019, and that hardly covered him in glory. He's diminished in many's eyes as a result, both in prominence and reputation.

It's ironic that by all accounts, he just revived movie Trek to show he could do Star Wars, a franchise he liked more. Then he did a worse job with Star Wars than Trek.

 

[fireproof78]

My point is Abrams hasn't done anything since The Rise of Skywalker in 2019, and that hardly covered him in glory.

You asked who sings his praises. I answered.

I don't care about glory or whatever subjective standard employed. It's annoying.

 

[eschaton]

You asked who sings his praises. I answered.

I don't care about glory or whatever subjective standard employed. It's annoying.

No, you mentioned surprise that time had not rehabilitated Abrams, which is why I replied I believe that he did little since other than Star Wars (which ended poorly) likely contributes.

Also, his mystery box style of storytelling has become so derided it's become a running joke in and of itself (the Kelvinverse does not suffer from this, admittedly, since Kurtzman and Orci were mostly responsible for the scriptwork).

Regardless, if Abrams had a run like Christopher Nolan for the past decade, I think haters would have reappraised his Trek work.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Again, this is a hypothetical, plus there's no point making paragraph after paragraph of exhaustive legalese laying out a case that can be summed up in a sentence or two. JJ Abrams made a lot of money charging upfront production fees. If Kurtzman followed a similar model, and was a mixed bag of revenue for the studio... the reason Zaslav ended one deal could easily apply to a similar deal at another company.

 

[fireproof78]

No, you mentioned surprise that time had not rehabilitated Abrams, which is why I replied I believe that he did little since other than Star Wars (which ended poorly) likely contributes.

I meant his relationship to Star Trek.

 

[Dukhat]

I don't hate ST09 at all. My point is Abrams hasn't done anything since The Rise of Skywalker in 2019, and that hardly covered him in glory. He's diminished in many's eyes as a result, both in prominence and reputation.

I’m pretty sure that isn’t remotely true.

It's ironic that by all accounts, he just revived movie Trek to show he could do Star Wars, a franchise he liked more.

Even if that’s true, so what?

Then he did a worse job with Star Wars than Trek.

He did a better job than Lucas did with the prequels, although that wasn’t a high bar. And Abrams didn’t write or direct The Last Jedi.

 

[F. King Daniel]

JJ could have personal shit going on in his life. Or maybe he's taken his millions and is living the kind of life we could only dream of.

 

[eschaton]

He did a better job than Lucas did with the prequels, although that wasn’t a high bar.

Prequels were worse in execution, but much bigger in terms of ambition as well, which makes them more interesting in an academic sense. TFA is basically just ANH with the parts shuffled around stylistically, telling the same story. The decision to start over from square one IMHO really hurts the original trilogy in retrospect, because it implies the sacrifices the legacy characters made...didn't really improve things much at all.

And Abrams didn’t write or direct The Last Jedi.

Which was the only interesting section of the sequel trilogy, despite horrendous pacing issues. At least it had identifiable themes and tried to tear down everything to tell a new story.

 

[Tuskin38]

And Abrams didn’t write or direct The Last Jedi.

Which was the best film of the Trilogy.

 

[The Wormhole]

Or maybe he's taken his millions and is living the kind of life we could only dream of.

I can see Abrams now doing his impression of Hedonism Bot from Futurama. "Oh Djambi, drop another memberberry into my mouth."

 

[Cr0sis21]

He did a better job than Lucas did with the prequels, although that wasn’t a high bar. And Abrams didn’t write or direct The Last Jedi.

I'm gonna have to disagree with that. The overall story for the prequel trilogy? Actually coherent and laid out in advance. Yes, the acting was better in the sequel trilogy, but in general it's layout went like this:
Force Awakens - Barely disguised retread of A New Hope
The Last Jedi - An attempt to do something completely different that divided audiences
The Rise of Skywalker - Nonsensical kneejerk reaction to online fan criticism that essentially kneecapped the franchise.
I'm hardly a fan of the prequels, but they are at least a better overall story. The sequel trilogy comes across like a blind man trying to stumble through an obstacle course.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm hardly a fan of the prequels, but they are at least a better overall story. The sequel trilogy comes across like a blind man trying to stumble through an obstacle course.

No way.

PT stumbled over what Lucas thought people liked about Star Wars while giving bare bones characters who must become a certain way..I might disagree with the ST but I'm more in to THE ST as a story.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm hardly a fan of the prequels, but they are at least a better overall story.

No. The prequels were absolute shit. The only redeeming quality about them was Ewan McGregor.