Spoilers Wild Blue Yonder grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
I'm wondering if it was a mistake or what for the real Doctor to refer to himself and Donna as "people from our planet." It seems unreasonably sloppy for it to be an accident, considering that bringing up the Timeless Child and the whole imposter plotline would have us hanging on his every word and cause that slip-up(?) in particular to stand out.
Wellllll, somebody had to. Chibnall couldn’t be bothered after all. And what’s half a universe if no one’s counting anyway?
Didn’t look anything like the chap on the pound notes. Fudged with Eminem though.
I'm probably going to be in the minority, but I didn't think this was very good.
It was way too confusing and took way too long to get anywhere, and once it did get somewhere, the place it got to was super generic..
The only thing even remotely interesting about it was the tacit acknowledgment of/reference to the Timeless Child and the Flux, but then RTD had to go and wipe it away by not having the real Donna be aware of anything that the 'NotDonna' had mentioned about said things.
It was way too confusing and took way too long to get anywhere, and once it did get somewhere, the place it got to was super generic..
The only thing even remotely interesting about it was the tacit acknowledgment of/reference to the Timeless Child and the Flux, but then RTD had to go and wipe it away by not having the real Donna be aware of anything that the 'NotDonna' had mentioned about said things.
I suspect Donna was lying.
Though in a rare moment, I agree with you. Predictable, and as glossy as it was, it felt like a wasted opportunity. These are supposed to be special episodes, and so far they are not shaping up to be anything more than what I was afraid of — slapping Tennant and Tate back in to get the figures up, and a whistle stop do-over. Not even a celebration or recognition of the show since 2005, never mind 1963.
Any other time this would have been a rather good filler episode, with some janky moments (two fake outs, the end one rather silly) and not entirely to my taste (and I already think I would rather have had a Moffat-y ‘kindness’ ending where the HADS was resolved by the creatures being taught that they didn’t have to be ‘evil’) but solid enough for a main-cast and a couple of sets/FX.
As it stands, it’s looking like Tennants return will be wasted, only serving as an RTD mulligan.
I hate the term filler episode, on that basis all of classic Who is filler. That said they could have been a bit more explicit in the marketing given so many people seem to be expecting more nods to the history of Who rather than just a mini series with Tennant and Tate.
Also non white actors have been cast as white historical figures for years and its viewed as normal. Tv and film have historically taken a different approach but it seems to be changing and why does it really matter.
I note black British actors used to find they had to move to the US for roles as the high level of costume dramas in the UK restricted their roles. Now that's less of an issue.
Also non white actors have been cast as white historical figures for years and its viewed as normal. Tv and film have historically taken a different approach but it seems to be changing and why does it really matter.
I note black British actors used to find they had to move to the US for roles as the high level of costume dramas in the UK restricted their roles. Now that's less of an issue.
Having digested a little more, it seems like the main purpose was to get a two-hander (moreso with David and Catherine than the Doctor and Donna), but that kind of became the only purpose of the episode. The situation essentially resolved itself, the Doctor and Donna were totally unnecessary and everything would've turned out fine if the TARDIS hadn't ended up there (indeed, possibly slightly better, with the Doctor being concerned that he may have accidentally conjured up interdimensional space vampires while bluffing with the salt). The TARDIS popped back on its own to save them, and the TARDIS was the one who figured out the Doctor picked the wrong Donna to save (which seemed oddly sanguine about in the end, it feels like that should've been the kind of thing she'd give him shit for). They figured out what the story of ship's captain was, which I guess is a valid mystery-structure for conveying a narrative, like in a short story, but we still never found out what the ship was, if there had been more than just the captain on it, or anything else beyond how someone else had already encountered and resolved the threat before the Doctor and Donna ever showed up. Even the Doctor's resolution, such as it was, was just to speed up what was already happening. The Doctor and Donna didn't solve any problems or come to any deductions, everything was done for them. It was just way too easy.
It was stylish, and what was there was well-executed, but for a decennial anniversary, and coming off of a period where the Doctor was written as generally being uncharacteristically passive and powerless, I don't think it lives up to what it should've been. Even for implications outside the episode itself as a standalone, as has been mentioned, the real Donna knows (or is willing to say) nothing about the Flux or the Timeless Child, and the Doctor seems to be back to his worst impulses with lying to his companions and suppressing his emotions and concerns, despite the big talk about the Fourteenth Doctor being a different, more mature version of the character than the Tenth.
I could probably say more nice things about the episode, but it would all be in the context of disliking Chibnall's writing, and that would turn into preferring Moffat's, and that'd be unfair to everyone. So, just stick with the broad notes: Run the "Indiana Jones" test (apocryphal, but useful), and think about how your plot would be different if your protagonists hadn't shown up at all.
It was stylish, and what was there was well-executed, but for a decennial anniversary, and coming off of a period where the Doctor was written as generally being uncharacteristically passive and powerless, I don't think it lives up to what it should've been. Even for implications outside the episode itself as a standalone, as has been mentioned, the real Donna knows (or is willing to say) nothing about the Flux or the Timeless Child, and the Doctor seems to be back to his worst impulses with lying to his companions and suppressing his emotions and concerns, despite the big talk about the Fourteenth Doctor being a different, more mature version of the character than the Tenth.
I could probably say more nice things about the episode, but it would all be in the context of disliking Chibnall's writing, and that would turn into preferring Moffat's, and that'd be unfair to everyone. So, just stick with the broad notes: Run the "Indiana Jones" test (apocryphal, but useful), and think about how your plot would be different if your protagonists hadn't shown up at all.
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There's absolutely nothing in the execution of the scene that even remotely hints that the real Donna is lying about not knowing the things that the 'NotDonna' did about what the Thirteenth Doctor had experienced/discovered.
Well, it has no cast save the regulars, and fairly limited sets — serves little to no purpose in any ongoing plot save it’s opening and closing, and fits between the big two of the set. It is filler. It’s The Kings Demons of this particular anniversary. Fun, but ultimately…
I would say it’s in the performance tbh. I thought she was lying, and fishing from a different angle when she asked him about it. It’s how it’s played. Very much an ‘oh no, I didn’t look in the bag, but if I had, what do you think I would say about what’s in there? Not that I know what’s in there of course, or would look, what with Christmas coming and… ‘
I disagree.
If the intent was for me to 'read' that Donna was lying based on Catherine Tate's performance, then said intent failed.
I’d go a step further and say the Doctor knew she she was lying to save his feelings. Because that’s the point. Two things at once. And the notDonna wasn’t interested in sparing feelings.
Calling it a ‘story’ would be a stretch. It is, however, a series of fictional events occurring to fictional characters in some kind of sequence. With Whitaker. So yes. I suppose.
My point is that I don't think the scene actually conveyed any of what you think that it did.
RTD really has to 'stick the landing' with The Giggle in order to justify the decision to officially make Tennant both the Tenth and Fourteenth Doctors, or there's going to unfortunately and unnecessarily be a 'pall' over Ncuti's tenure for me (at least initially).
I think that landing will not be stuck. But we shall see.
Considering the CiN episode went out of its way to say canon was rupturing, this is just another example of the multiverse's eventual manifestation in an early stage in the Whoniverse, which will culminate in the next episode or two. or so I'd guess that's what it's all about.
POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOLLOW BUT THEY ARE ONLY RUMORS BEING REGURGITATED
Plus, there's some rumor that's going on about "biregeneration".
Never mind that while every era is its own reinvention, what's culminating is probably going to be the biggest ever if Doctor Who gets its own equivalent to its own multiverse and infinite possibilities, which is something the show could already do via its original premise of time travel and how "time can be rewritten". No Toymaker is involved, but he's one of many obscure characters worthy of a return to the show and it's all long overdue...
What irks me is that shows from the 1960s, with genuinely primitive audio mixing equipment by today's standards or by 1980s standards or whocaresstandards, have had far fewer problems with mixing in music and sound effects. One obvious example is when the tardis whizzes by and apples drop and the dude starts yelling, the music blaring out his yelling and whinging and all is definitely muted by the loud lame music -- and that's not due to viewers' sound equipment, especially since even bog-standard devices that have no discrete sound controls don't do a better job than them big fancier ones, never mind the most expensive units with 401.2 sound since everyone needs 2 soundwoofers and a dedicated center audio channel where most voices are piped through...
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Is CiN canon now? I thought DW had no canon or so everyone says. I thought it was funny that they could ignore that but had to explicitly explain why the Doctor could see he was kind of hot. I consider myself pretty far along the straight male scale and I could tell you that.
The rest of the episode felt "very RTD" to me which I realize is a rather lame and lazy way to summarize it. For three specials with 10/14 and Donna that seems quite appropriate. I enjoyed it quite a bit on first viewing, I'm sure it could be nitpicked but it felt quite true to the TENnant years.
I did like that RTD picked up on the consequences of the Flux, not a storyline I cared for but something that shouldn't be glossed over and ignored when you destroy half the universe.
The rest of the episode felt "very RTD" to me which I realize is a rather lame and lazy way to summarize it. For three specials with 10/14 and Donna that seems quite appropriate. I enjoyed it quite a bit on first viewing, I'm sure it could be nitpicked but it felt quite true to the TENnant years.
I did like that RTD picked up on the consequences of the Flux, not a storyline I cared for but something that shouldn't be glossed over and ignored when you destroy half the universe.
