Spoilers TOS: Ishmael by Barbara Hambly Review Thread

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Regarding Easter eggs in Ishmael, regarding the "argument over a girl" on page 13, between the "scruffy-looking spice smuggler" (obviously Han Solo) and the "brown-uniformed pilots from some down-at-the-heels migrant fleet" (Apollo and Starbuck, from Cattlecar Gigantica, presumably), does anybody have a line on the "tall, curly-haired man in the eccentric garb typical of space-tramps" mentioned near the bottom of the page?

 

[Christopher]

does anybody have a line on the "tall, curly-haired man in the eccentric garb typical of space-tramps" mentioned near the bottom of the page?

I would assume it's the Fourth Doctor. IIRC, there are a couple of other Doctor Who references in the book, like a reference to Metebelis crystals and a mention of a civilization of time travelers in Kasterberous (the constellation where Gallifrey is located).

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

You know, that thought had occurred to me. I simply wasn't aware that Tom Baker was of above average height.

 

[Christopher]

I simply wasn't aware that Tom Baker was of above average height.

I take it you haven't actually seen his episodes, then, since that's hard to miss. He's actually the tallest of all the Doctors at 6'3".

https://screenod.com/doctor-who-heights-ranked/

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Never seen a single episode. All I know about Doctor Who is pure hearsay. Just as all I knew about Doc Smith novels or Hoka stories prior to this year was hearsay.

OTOH, I know ADF's Humanx Commonwealth like the back of my hand.

BTW, I'd really like to see Dr. Steiner (or any other Drelb) turn up again. Preferably onscreen.

 

[Stevil2001]

I would assume it's the Fourth Doctor. IIRC, there are a couple of other Doctor Who references in the book, like a reference to Metebelis crystals and a mention of a civilization of time travelers in Kasterberous (the constellation where Gallifrey is located).

Doesn't another Doctor (the second?) turn up in another crowd scene, one in the past?

 

[GHS]

My memory on this is pretty fuzzy, but I recall Mark Lenard's character on Here Comes The Brides being portrayed as a jerk and the homely young lady (Biddie) being portrayed as a needy idiot. But author Hambly was bending over backwards on every page to redeem Biddie and her Aaron Stempel was suddenly a cordial fellow, which provided unending distraction from my ability to focus on the plot. But I applaud her for pulling off a bootleg crossover.
Also, this Seattleite found Here Comes The Brides staggeringly lightweight and forgettable. It was ahead of its time in the sense that it would be another 30 years before Seinfeld came along and grabbed all the credit for being the show where nothing ever happens. My theory is Hambly was saved by the fact that Screen Gems has forgotten that it existed or that they owned the rights.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

It is wisely written that you can't judge a book by its cover. But in this case (and forgive me if I've already said this somewhere), the cover stock that Pocket was using when they published this was absolutely . So high in acid and/or lignin that in less than 40 years, it's yellowed and crumbling. Rather like the pages of an extremely rare WWII-era Bobbsey Twins novel I have, that crumble if you look at them cross-eyed (one of the reasons why it's so rare: because of the war, there weren't a lot of copies printed to begin with, relatively few of them have survived, and so far as I'm aware, it was never reprinted, much less revised for the 1960s-1980s "purple edition").

And given that it's an unauthorized HCTB crossover, hip-deep in Easter eggs referencing everything from Anderson & Dickson's Hoka stories to Dr. Who, to Bonanza, I have my doubts that Pocket is ever going to reprint Ishmael.

And as to Stemple (as spelled in Ishmael; canonically "Stempel") being "portrayed as a jerk," I doubt that Mark Lenard (even if the alternative was waiting tables) would have been interested in investing the better part of two years portraying a total jerk, any more than Carroll O'Connor was willing to play Archie Bunker as the malicious jerk Norman Lear had originally wanted (and which would have been closer to his British counterpart, Alf Garnett). And even if one-dimensional characters, incapable of development, are good enough for a sitcom, they're not going to sustain anybody's interest in a novel (unless maybe it's either a shoot-em-up, or a "supermarket porn" "bodice-ripper")

 

[Christopher]

And as to Stemple (as spelled in Ishmael; canonically "Stempel") being "portrayed as a jerk," I doubt that Mark Lenard (even if the alternative was waiting tables) would have been interested in investing the better part of two years portraying a total jerk, any more than Carroll O'Connor was willing to play Archie Bunker as the malicious jerk Norman Lear had originally wanted (and which would have been closer to his British counterpart, Alf Garnett). And even if one-dimensional characters, incapable of development, are good enough for a sitcom, they're not going to sustain anybody's interest in a novel (unless maybe it's either a shoot-em-up, or a "supermarket porn" "bodice-ripper")

I think it's more that Stempel was the main antagonist of HCTB, but Hambly wanted to make Mark Lenard's character a father figure to Spock, so she wrote him in a more positive light.

According to Wikipedia, "Much of the dramatic and comedic tension in the first season revolved around Stempel's efforts to sabotage the deal so he can take over the Bolts' holdings. Stempel became more friendly in the second and final season, which focused more on the development of individual characters and the conflicts associated with newcomers and with people just passing through." So it sounds like the idea of Stempel being redeemable has precedent in the show itself.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

So it sounds like the idea of Stempel being redeemable has precedent in the show itself.

That was my impression (and unless whoever packaged the series for strip-syndication spliced the second-season "open" onto all episodes, I may very well have never seen a first-season episode).

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Being too young to have seen or heard of Here Come the Brides, I recall finding the story enjoyable enough, but not overly memorable. A solid 6 or 7 out of 10, I suppose.

 

[I am not Herbert]

Overdue review from before the holidays. I thought "Ishmael" was splendid. (I cast my vote for "outstanding" above). Hambly took what from afar seems like an unpromising, almost laughably fanfickish premise ('I took my favorite character from my favorite TV show and dropped him into my other favorite TV show!') and delivered an engrossing, at times moving exploration of Spock's reasoning, principles and motivations. I had never seen 'Here Come the Brides' (and I don't recommend you do, either, unless you want to be thinking about Sarek and Lazarus the whole time you read the book). I don't really care why Hambly was motivated to explore the Expanded Here Come the Brides Universe via Spock; whatever the motivation, the end result was a late 1860s Seattle setting that feels very lived in and lovingly rendered by the author. There are a few minor downsides (McCoy is in 'why-you-green-blooded, pointy-eared' mode almost unto stupidity, and there is a Small Universe flourish towards the end that I could have lived without, and have just chosen to ignore) but these are quibbles. Look past the surface gimmickry and give it a shot if you haven't already.

 

[Falconer]

Falconer

Thanks!

Well, I started the book, put it back on the shelf for a while, and finally went back and finished it. It was a slog for several reasons.

1. It just so happens that I had just finished “Mind-Sifter” from The New Voyages. The premise of Ishmael is almost identical in the plot’s premise and progression.

2. There’s not much story in Ishmael. It would have made a fine short story—again, as already demonstrated by “Mind-Sifter.” It was spread too thin over a novel.

3. The story was childishly simple to follow, but I take it it would have been much more delightful if I had caught all the references. I am familiar with San Francisco, so that lent a bit of fun to those references. All the more so if I had caught them all, I reckon. Not to mention if I had been familiar with Here Come the Brides. But I wasn’t about to do “homework” before reading it. I’m afraid the target audience for this book will soon be well and truly vanished.

4. The story centers around Spock, and he’s perfect and amazing and wise and kind and brilliant and smart and has incredibly keen hearing (is that well-known?) all the time. I’m sure there’s an audience for this sort of thing, but not me. I mean, I like Spock, but not as the center of the story (and with Kirk and McCoy at such an extreme periphery). But also, I think the writer forgets that the point of Vulcan devotion to logic is to hold in check their penchant for violence, terrifying and cruel. I don’t see him ever struggling with that, here.

That said, the book was likable, at no point really groan-worthy. It was a cozy read. I enjoyed the backstory about the Karsids (reminds me of the Old Kings of Star Fleet Battles lore—the idea of an older empire that the Klingons once belonged to). But by and large I do not recommend it.


Maybe next it’s time for some Star Trek Logs.

 

[Christopher]

3. The story was childishly simple to follow, but I take it it would have been much more delightful if I had caught all the references. I am familiar with San Francisco, so that lent a bit of fun to those references. All the more so if I had caught them all, I reckon. Not to mention if I had been familiar with Here Come the Brides. But I wasn’t about to do “homework” before reading it. I’m afraid the target audience for this book will soon be well and truly vanished.

I've never seen Here Come the Brides, and I didn't know it existed the first few times I read Ishmael. Yet I still found the novel reasonably enjoyable on its own terms, though hardly one of the greats.

4. The story centers around Spock, and he’s perfect and amazing and wise and kind and brilliant and smart and has incredibly keen hearing (is that well-known?) all the time.

There were several references in TOS to Spock's superior hearing, in "The Galileo Seven," "Operation -- Annihilate!," "The Cloud Minders," and possibly others.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

It's a fun read, and every few years, I get back to it.

And there are plenty of ST novels that other people love, that I personally wish I could un-read. You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

 

[I am not Herbert]

I’m afraid the target audience for this book will soon be well and truly vanished.

No more so than TOS tie-in books in general. I didn't know (and still don't know) anything about Here Comes the Brides when I read Ishmael last year, and that did not impact my enjoyment of the book in the slightest. I think that you and I were the target audience. And I have as yet no firm plans to vanish

 

[Christopher]

The ideal is for a work to have more than one audience. You can put in references to something that will be an inside joke to those who get it, but the story still needs to work for the audience that doesn't get the references. For instance, my own TOS: The Higher Frontier is jampacked with references to the Kamen Rider franchise, but it seems to work fine for readers who didn't get the in-jokes. It's still a Star Trek novel first and foremost.

As I mentioned, I didn't learn about Ishmael's connection to HCTB until years after I read it, but it didn't make the book confusing or uninteresting; I just assumed that Hambly created the characters herself rather than using pre-existing characters.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

The ideal is for a work to have more than one audience. You can put in references to something that will be an inside joke to those who get it, but the story still needs to work for the audience that doesn't get the references. For instance, my own TOS: The Higher Frontier is jampacked with references to the Kamen Rider franchise, but it seems to work fine for readers who didn't get the in-jokes. It's still a Star Trek novel first and foremost.

That's three times in a row that CLB and I have been in perfect agreement.

It's the end of the world! E*N*T*R*O*P*Y* *R*E*A*L*I*Z*A*T*I*O*N*!

Or maybe the universe has blinked out of existence, and been replaced with an even more bizarre one.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Easter eggs in Ishmael

In addition to the whole book being an unauthorized Here Come the Brides crossover, it is littered with Easter eggs alluding to other properties:

Spock plays chess with Paladin, from Have Gun Will Travel, on pages 180-182.

From Doctor Who, the Fourth (i.e, Tom Baker) Doctor appears on page 13;
Metebelis crystals are mentioned on page 57;
the Second (i.e., Patrick Troughton) Doctor appears on page 154;
legends of a planet of stagnant time-travelers in the Kasteroborous Galaxy are mentioned on page 200.

The "scruffy-looking spice smuggler" on page 13 is undoubtedly Han Solo, from Star Wars.

The "pair of brown-uniformed pilots from some down-at-the-heels migrant fleet," also on page 13, is apparently Apollo and Starbuck from the original Battlestar Galactica (or as I prefer to call it, "Cattlecar Gigantica).

Little Joe Cartwright and his brother Hoss, from Bonanza, appear on pages 153-154.

Emperor Norton was a real person.

Matt Dillon, from Gunsmoke apparently also shows up, as well as Lucas McCain, from The Rifleman, the Rawhide Kid, from Rawhide, and Clint Eastwood's "Man With No Name" also make appearances, as does one of the Maverick brothers. And possibly also a character from Wagon Train (and remember, Roddenberry sold Star Trek to NBC as "Wagon Train to the Stars").

Florinda's Place, on page 181, is evidently a reference to Gwen Bristow's novel, Jubilee Trail.

Hokas are of course from a series of short stories by Poul Anderson and Gordon Dickson.

And Drelb astrophysicist Aurelia Steiner might possibly be a reference to Laugh-In (specifically, to "Morgul the Friendly Drelb," a character mentioned far more often than seen, and used as the pseudonymous author of at least one Laugh-In book). Which is rather ironic, given that Laugh-In was a major reason why Star Trek was exiled to the worst timeslot of the week. Did I ever mention that I'd love to see another appearance by a Drelb? Especially a canonical appearance?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Easter eggs in Ishmael

The "scruffy-looking spice smuggler" on page 13 is undoubtedly Han Solo, from Star Wars.

According to a Dark Horse Comics story, Indiana Jones will find the wreck of the Millennium Falcon in the Pacific Northwest. And, the Falcon crashed there sometime in the 19th-century.