How Do Social Conservative Star Fans Enjoy Star Trek?

[Oddish]

I commented on that video, but Mr. Shives is something of a snowflake, and he mutes those who disagree with him. So I will post what my response was here. Though I now identify moderate, I still have conservative leanings in many areas.

Trek opposes:
Authoritarian government (Romulans, Cardassians)
Loss of individual rights (Romulans, Cardassians, Borg)
Loss of freedom (same)
Lack of due process (Cardassians, Satie's kangaroo court)
Evil done in the name of the perceived "greater good"

Trek supports:
The right to free speech: everyone has a voice.
Marriage as a meaningful commitment, and the value of the family unit.
Freedom of religion, even if the Federation itself is secular.
The right of civilians to bear arms.
The importance of courage, and opposition to bullies and tyrants.
The use of strength in the name of righteousness.
The paramount value of professional ethics, especially among physicians.

And, a lot of supposedly liberal notions on it are tempered.

Atheism: Check out Picard's monologue in "Where Silence Has Lease". He is something of an agnostic... but open-minded.

Pro-choice: Yes, the Federation clearly advances "my body, my choice"... but it is used to refuse termination of a pregnancy, not endorse it.

Socialism: Where socialism is about the sharing of limited resources, the Federation features nearly unlimited resources.

 

[Lord Garth]

I commented on that video, but Mr. Shives is something of a snowflake, and he mutes those who disagree with him. So I will post what my response was here. Though I now identify moderate, I still have conservative leanings in many areas.

That's one of the things I don't like about Steve Shive's Channel. "If you have X belief, I don't want you!" I agree with him on most issues (and, for the record, I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primaries for both 2016 and 2020, so that's where I am) but if you're going to make a stand on an issue, you have to expect that someone is going to argue with you about it. I'd rather win a debate with the opposite side than say, "No! You can't post here!" And, if I lose, then I didn't make my case strong enough. But if you're going to talk the talk, you have to be able to walk the walk. So he shouldn't mute people unless they're trolls.

 

[Citiprime]

The only "hot-button" social issue that I can arguably see Trek taking a conservative position on is assisted suicide and physician-assisted suicide. Both Crusher (in TNG's "Ethics") and Bashir (in DS9's "The Quickening") seemed to react with disgust at the idea of it. Although, there are non-conservative groups who oppose assisted suicide too (e.g., some disability groups oppose legal assisted suicide).

The people who've went in circles arguing about whether Starfleet is a military will love this, but I remember a debate about the philosophy of Star Trek on the liberal blog Daily Kos, and there were a few people who argued that while the Federation might be a quasi-Utopia, it's a "militarist utopia" with Starfleet at its core. Basically, a variation of the Michael Eddington argument.

 

[Oddish]

That's one of the things I don't like about Steve Shive's Channel. "If you have X belief, I don't want you!"

Intolerance in the name of tolerance is still intolerance. The people who practice it simply strut about like Norah Satie, utterly convinced of their righteousness, and their absolute duty to silence any voice of dissent.

The only "hot-button" social issue that I can arguably see Trek taking a conservative position on is assisted suicide and physician-assisted suicide. Both Crusher (in TNG's "Ethics") and Bashir (in DS9's "The Quickening") seemed to react with disgust at the idea of it.

Primum non nocere (first do no harm) is a core tenet of medical ethics. Taking a person's life, even if they want to die, is obviously harm. More common nowadays is the DNR order, which doesn't end life, but allows nature to take its course.

It's possibly implied that the EMH is more tolerant... he says that he will not "take Mr. Tuvix's life against his will", suggesting that if Tuvix had chosen to be separated, it would not have been an issue for him.

 

[Tosk]

Both Crusher (in TNG's "Ethics") and Bashir (in DS9's "The Quickening") seemed to react with disgust at the idea of it.

On the other hand, Bashir also has a "die with dignity" example when he refuses to prolong Bareil's life any further in Life Support. It's not as direct as what Trevean does in The Quickening, but it does show that Bashir's take on it is not black and white.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I imagine they're big fans of the Abrams films: All pew-pew and no substance.

Bless your heart, you missed Spock's coming out allegory in 2009 and the extremely in-your-face condemnation of drone warfare in 2013?

Seriously, how?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Star Trek has traditionally been way ahead of the curve in how it discusses and satirizes racism, religion, government, & authoritarianism.

They were kids when they originally watched it and the messages went over their heads. They liked the space battles and Kirk scoring alien babes.

 

[The Rock]

Btw, this makes me wonder if Trump supporters love Star Trek Into Darkness.

The reason I say that is because that movie is, well, basically a 9/11 truther movie (one of the writers is a 9/11 truther himself, in fact). Back in 2013 9/11 truthers and other conspiracy nuts were considered to be left leaning. Ever since Trump was president it seems like the vast majority of the conspiracy nuts INCLUDING 9/11 truthers became Trump supporters and now they are now considered to be right wingers simply on account of being Trump supporters.

 

[BillJ]

People are quite capable of being oblivious to the most obvious things. See: Climate Change.

 

[at Quark's]

The people who've went in circles arguing about whether Starfleet is a military will love this, but I remember a debate about the philosophy of Star Trek on the liberal blog Daily Kos, and there were a few people who argued that while the Federation might be a quasi-Utopia, it's a "militarist utopia" with Starfleet at its core. Basically, a variation of the Michael Eddington argument.

Well, I'd say we get a skewed image because most series focus on Starfleet (and usually even a very small part of it at that). It doesn't mean the entire Federation is centered around it or that militaristic. We don't get to see much of what everyday life on an average Federation planet is like.

 

[Tosk]

This is an assumption on my part, but the way Joe Sisko acts in Homefront/Paradise Lost makes me think life 'round those parts is greatly Starfleet-free.

 

[Citiprime]

This is an assumption on my part, but the way Joe Sisko acts in Homefront/Paradise Lost makes me think life 'round those parts is greatly Starfleet-free.

On the other hand, and admittedly it's two different eras, but David Marcus's view of Starfleet in The Wrath of Khan seems to indicate there is at least some who view Starfleet with a level of distrust and suspicion.

 

[Timewalker]

Primum non nocere (first do no harm) is a core tenet of medical ethics. Taking a person's life, even if they want to die, is obviously harm. More common nowadays is the DNR order, which doesn't end life, but allows nature to take its course.

Since I don't want to hijack the thread into an off-topic argument, I will merely say that there is no "obviously" about it. Feel free to PM if you (anyone) want further clarification.

 

[Tosk]

On the other hand, and admittedly it's two different eras, but David Marcus's view of Starfleet in The Wrath of Khan seems to indicate there is at least some who view Starfleet with a level of distrust and suspicion.

Yeah, but he had to deal with them directly. That's not really "everyday life".

 

[Oddish]

The reason I say that is because that movie is, well, basically a 9/11 truther movie (one of the writers is a 9/11 truther himself, in fact). Back in 2013 9/11 truthers and other conspiracy nuts were considered to be left leaning. Ever since Trump was president it seems like the vast majority of the conspiracy nuts INCLUDING 9/11 truthers became Trump supporters and now they are now considered to be right wingers simply on account of being Trump supporters.

Donald Trump and the worst of his followers are the reason I abandoned the Republican party and went centrist. I still want a lot of the things they do, but I will not ally with Klansmen, destroyers of the environment, or a candidate who acts like a spoiled nine-year-old calling names on a school playground.

People are quite capable of being oblivious to the most obvious things. See: Climate Change.

Especially when there's dollar signs involved. But that's true of both sides of the energy debate.

This is an assumption on my part, but the way Joe Sisko acts in Homefront/Paradise Lost makes me think life 'round those parts is greatly Starfleet-free.

Starfleet is mainly an exploratory organization. One actually wonders how they were able to scrounge enough Starfleet personnel to establish martial law the way they did... maybe they enlisted local authorities in other areas.

 

[BillJ]

Starfleet is mainly an exploratory organization. One actually wonders how they were able to scrounge enough Starfleet personnel to establish martial law the way they did... maybe they enlisted local authorities in other areas.

Starfleet has to protect a Federation that expands to 8,000 light years in the 24th century, in addition to their exploratory and scientific endeavors. There has to be millions in Starfleet.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Btw, this makes me wonder if Trump supporters love Star Trek Into Darkness.

The reason I say that is because that movie is, well, basically a 9/11 truther movie (one of the writers is a 9/11 truther himself, in fact). Back in 2013 9/11 truthers and other conspiracy nuts were considered to be left leaning. Ever since Trump was president it seems like the vast majority of the conspiracy nuts INCLUDING 9/11 truthers became Trump supporters and now they are now considered to be right wingers simply on account of being Trump supporters.

It doesn't work as one though. Khan was not an agent of Starfleet when he committed his attacks nor acting in anything but his own interests.

 

[Tosk]

One actually wonders how they were able to scrounge enough Starfleet personnel to establish martial law the way they did...

Maybe that's why we saw very few officers on the street, and it wasn't budget related after all.

 

[valkyrie013]

Concur with others..
Very well, thank you.
From the time i was watching old VHS is the early 80's till now. It has shown me a society that has moved away from petty arguments and distractions and has finaly said, for Earth, Were all human what the F" are we doing? and has moved on.
Patrick Stewart said it best about being bald, in the future, no one will care.
Acceptance of others regardless of race, gender etc. IDIC.
My parents were born in the Early 40's, accepted everybody regardless of any differences.

My harshness of Discovery isn't directed at the inclusion of LGBT+ characters, I thought that there inclusion was well handled and had a good story. mainly because it wasn't Shout at the Ceiling, it was handled as a normal life, as it should be, a bit of indifference, as in, this couple is gay.. And? there a couple, living there life, nothing weird or wrong with that., moving on.

My harshness is with the rest of the abysmal writing that was either boring or incoherent.

Tos or TNG didin't go over there heads as kids, it was just not as big a deal as it NOW with all the hyper partisanship and reading into the smallest thing, You Tube, Tic Tok analyzing things to death, Moronic talking heads over analyzing stuff. Now people look at things with a political/social eyes that didn't really exist back then.
Honestly to me, society has moved Backwards in the past 10, 20 years or so.. From where Jadzia kissed another woman and to me, not being a big deal, to where if a movie today had one, there would be calls for boycotts etc. just idiotic.

The Far Right and Far Left have just poisoned there proverbial wells, with people looking at ALL people as Far whatever side, when most are in left or right of middle wringing there hands at each side as they go further off the rails.

 

[Oddish]

The Far Right and Far Left have just poisoned there proverbial wells, with people looking at ALL people as Far whatever side, when most are in left or right of middle wringing there hands at each side as they go further off the rails.

Beautifully stated. That's exactly what happened with me and the right. And I have left-leaning friends, and I can't believe that they or those like them are Ok with the lunacy I've seen the other side embrace (such as the time I saw a middle school flying both the Palestinian flag and an LGBTQ flag, apparently ignoring the fact that the Palestinian government incarcerates LGBTQ people).

If a third party candidate with a rational agenda could ever get themselves into the msinstream (like Ross Perot in 1992), I think they would have a real chance.