Spoilers The Marvels grade and discussion

[JoeZhang]

Yeah, I've never seen anything like this.

It's wild - long-running franchises often suffer from decline, but this... this is absolute rejection. The audience at the opening weekend was mainly hardcore male fans - women didn't turn out, teenagers didn't turn out, and the general audience did not turn out.

Rather than via incursion - the Marvel Universe dies via indifference.

 

[Skipper]

It's become the movie that's cool NOT to watch.

 

[Set Harth]

I was not watching it before it was cool!

 

[theenglish]

Even though this has become the Joe and Terry thread, I'd like to get back to the actual movie. It is easily in the top third of Marvel movies for me. There is nothing in the film that you need to study up on before going in as it is all explained, and explained well, in the context of the film. The three leads are great together and have fantastic chemistry. Brie Larson does a great job and brings a much needed sense of vulnerability to the character. Teyonah Parris and Vellani are great as well with, surprisingly, Jackson kind of being the weak link.

I didn't really have a problem with the way the film was edited--the story moved along at a nice pace. My only complaint is that the light hearted tone of the film didn't give an opportunity to reflect on the level of death and destruction that takes place. At one point, I was drawn out of the movie wondering if I missed something on screen asking...

Spoiler: plot point toward end of film

did that planet really just lose its ocean (or at least most of it)?

Whatever people's problem with this movie is, it is not the film itself. I think when people look back on this down the road, it is going to be received much more fairly than it has been thus far.

 

[The Nightmare Doctor]

What's this? Actual discussion of the film? Don't mind if I do!

The three leads are great together and have fantastic chemistry. Brie Larson does a great job and brings a much needed sense of vulnerability to the character. Teyonah Parris and Vellani are great as well with, surprisingly, Jackson kind of being the weak link.

I noticed Jackson was rather low key here but it was still fun to watch him cut lose a bit and have fun (like the rest of the film!). A much needed cleanser after the disappointment of Secret Invasion.

I didn't really have a problem with the way the film was edited--the story moved along at a nice pace. My only complaint is that the light hearted tone of the film didn't give an opportunity to reflect on the level of death and destruction that takes place. At one point, I was drawn out of the movie wondering if I missed something on screen asking...

Spoiler: plot point toward end of film

did that planet really just lose its ocean (or at least most of it)?

I didn't mind the fast-paced nature of the first act but I agree there were certain points weren't allowed to breath, particularly when Carol and Monica finally talking things out. I needed at least five to ten minutes more of that scene (or even scenes).

As for the ocean situation, I'm not sure. I think it was one of those "don't think about it too much moments" that I don't worry about.

Whatever people's problem with this movie is, it is not the film itself. I think when people look back on this down the road, it is going to be received much more fairly than it has been thus far.

Absolutely. Once the film moves far enough from its release and inane discussions about its box office, the film will be better appreciated.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I didn't mind the fast-paced nature of the first act but I agree there were certain points allowed to breath, particularly when Carol and Monica finally talk things out. I needed at least five to ten minutes more of that scene (or even scenes).

I liked the movie quite a lot, but this was really my biggest issue with it. It feels like a good movie that had all the ingredients to be - and should've been - a great movie, but it's too concerned with keeping things moving and being punchy and fun to properly develop and fully realize that potential.

And the part that disturbs me is so much of it seems to be trying to make the exact opposite kind of story to Captain Marvel (and even the exact opposite kind of Captain Marvel character wise) that it honestly feels like Marvel just bought into the bs internet hate campaign and this was their attempt to prove that 'Captain Marvel can be *fun*, honest!' which just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[fireproof78]

It's wild - long-running franchises often suffer from decline, but this... this is absolute rejection. The audience at the opening weekend was mainly hardcore male fans - women didn't turn out, teenagers didn't turn out, and the general audience did not turn out.

Rather than via incursion - the Marvel Universe dies via indifference.

And the peasants rejoice.

 

[JoeZhang]

this was their attempt to prove that 'Captain Marvel can be *fun*, honest!' which just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I only saw it once but I remember the first film being plenty of fun?

 

[Turtletrekker]

I only saw it once but I remember the first film being plenty of fun?

I loved the first film.

 

[theenglish]

I noticed Jackson was rather low key here but it was still fun to watch him cut lose a bit and have fun (like the rest of the film!). A much needed cleanser after the disappointment of Secret Invasion.

We are in agreement there.

I didn't mind the fast-paced nature of the first act but I agree there were certain points weren't allowed to breath, particularly when Carol and Monica finally talking things out. I needed at least five to ten minutes more of that scene (or even scenes).

And it would have been a perfect time to slow the movie down a little, as the team is trying to figure out the next move they all have a little time to bond.

 

[Anwar]

That's a reflection on the appeal of the films themselves.

Put something great out, people will flock to see it.

It can't be forgotten that everyone went out (in the midst of Omicron) to see Spider-Man NWH in Winter 2021.

Yeah but they admitted they only did that for the Nostalgia Factor and once that wore off they admitted it wasn't a very well written movie.

Guardians 3 still did 845M Worldwide, tied with many Phase 3 films. Shows there is still an audience hunger for good Marvel films with characters that people actually care about.

Not as much as what was hope, which was breaching the billion ceiling again.

To go directly from that, to The Marvels flopping at historical levels (perhaps the biggest financial failure in the genre if it can't crack 100M) is very telling about where mainstream audience interest is.

Tends to happen when there's no marketing, no promotions and people were under the assumption they HAD to watch WandaVision, Secret Invasion and Ms Marvel to understand the movie...when they didn't.

Yup. Blade Runner was a cult classic with niche appeal. 2049 needed a much smaller budget to turn a profit, as the film would never be a 4th quadrant hit.

And yet there was no sadistic glee at it not going well.

This movie is a case of a combination of several bad luck factors.

 

[Tuskin38]

I’m also waiting for the D+ release. Do I miss going to the theatre? Sure, but it’s just cheaper to stay home.
I haven’t been to a theatre since December 2019

 

[Anwar]

Time for a lovely box office update

https://variety.com/2023/film/box-o...el-wins-weekend-the-marvels-flops-1235792803/



So essentially, "The Marvels" has really poor legs and poor Word of Mouth.

It won't make it to 100M domestic. Audiences are voting with their wallets.

And what will happen when it goes in D+ and becomes a massive streaming hit for the Service? What will that tell us?

 

[Nightowl1701]

The way CBR sees it, the SAG-AFTRA strike killed The Marvels - no marketing/promotion by the actors until too late meant no audience interest.

 

[Tuskin38]

Yeah it did have terrible marketing
I don’t really remember anything until a few weeks before it released

 

[Anwar]

It doesn't help what little marketing there was sent the wrong idea. People assumed they had to see Secret Invasion, Ms Marvel and WandaVision to understand the movie.

When...they didn't.

 

[The Gatekeeper]

The way CBR sees it, the SAG-AFTRA strike killed The Marvels - no marketing/promotion by the actors until too late meant no audience interest.

Though something I'm noticing, this weekend's number 1, The Hunger Games prequel basically did the same as The Marvels did last weekend, despite the fact that in the case of the Hunger Games prequel, its cast was granted dispensation by SAG-AFTRA granting them permission to promote the film even while the strike was going on.

 

[JD]

I liked the movie quite a lot, but this was really my biggest issue with it. It feels like a good movie that had all the ingredients to be - and should've been - a great movie, but it's too concerned with keeping things moving and being punchy and fun to properly develop and fully realize that potential.

As much as I enjoyed the movie, I could see where even just another 10 or 15 minutes to go a little deeper

And the part that disturbs me is so much of it seems to be trying to make the exact opposite kind of story to Captain Marvel (and even the exact opposite kind of Captain Marvel character wise) that it honestly feels like Marvel just bought into the bs internet hate campaign and this was their attempt to prove that 'Captain Marvel can be *fun*, honest!' which just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Her personality here felt a little bit closer to what she's like in the comics than how she was in the first movie and End Game, so that might have been more of what they were going for.
Sorry to go back to the box office, but I'm really shocked by the drop off. Most of the responses I've seen to it so far are fairly positive, so I thought that might have been enough to at least pick things up a bit, but I guess not.

 

[theenglish]

Her personality here felt a little bit closer to what she's like in the comics than how she was in the first movie and End Game, so that might have been more of what they were going for.

One of the disappointments up until now, is that we hardly see her "real" personality at all in Captain Marvel. It isn't until near the end of the movie that the real Carol Danvers starts to shine through the Kree persona, and most of the finale is just action. Then, after all the build up, she was hardly in Endgame. It's been almost four years since we've seen Carol beyond a couple of end credits scenes and this is the first time we really get to know what the MCU Captain Marvel is like.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

It's wild - long-running franchises often suffer from decline, but this... this is absolute rejection. The audience at the opening weekend was mainly hardcore male fans - women didn't turn out, teenagers didn't turn out, and the general audience did not turn out.

Rather than via incursion - the Marvel Universe dies via indifference.

So that explains a general decline but this film does not represent a "general decline" - it is breaking records in how bad its box office is - compared generally or against other MCU films.

In box office terms it died on it's first Friday and we are just watching the zombie shuffle on for contractual reasons. If you divide its box office against number of screens and a reasonable amount of viewings it is playing to empty screens in some places.

Why is a different conversation but this is not just general decline.

Some would like to sell the stitched-together the notion that every other "cause" under the sun is responsible for The Marvels' gargantuan failure (nevermind evidence disproving certain claims), instead of repeated viewer complaints of just how terrible the film happens to be. Its not some great shock when one considers the lack of quality in several Marvel film and TV productions in recent years, especially when compared to the franchise's early output. This is common to nearly every film series in history, yet this unavoidable fact is either ignored or denied, yet no countering view provides a solid reason for The Marvels' astoundingly poor performance.

Yeah, I've never seen anything like this.

Not since other Heaven's Gate and Ishtar--two films that redefined the idea of the box-office disaster.

And the peasants rejoice.

Not helpful.