The complaint: "Transwarp Beaming Replaces Starships!"
What about Food and Cargo?
We only see up to 2 people being transported.
The Kelvin TOS Crew's fate vs. Prime characters' fate
- Thread starter Danlav05
- Start date
The complaint: "Transwarp Beaming Replaces Starships!"
What about Food and Cargo?
We only see up to 2 people being transported.
What about having Kelvinverse Janice Rand replace Chekov?
I'd rather Jaylah, she's established. Or bring Carol back.
I wonder if the Kelvin characters should adopt alternate fates from ideas left on the cutting room floor from the TOS movies and GEN. As like a post-Starfleet career thing, and have the characters take a radical departure from their depiction.
- Uhura hosts a radio show, or is doing a Doctors Without Borders thing
- Scotty is a Professor of Engineering, taking captured Klingon ships apart in front of his students
- Sulu became captain of the Reliant, and then retired to be a cab driver on a backwater alien planet; he maintains some sort of personal connect to great-great-great grandfather (maybe home videos spliced together from the mid 1980s (child), mid 2020s (middle aged) and mid 2050s/mid 2060s(elderly, played by Takei?). Also, his husband Ben is dead and Sulu raised Demora alone.
- Chekov either became a chess grandmaster, was V’ger’d, ended up in a different universe or timeline, or was simply reassigned to a different ship or starbase. Maybe he took over the Reliant from Sulu and is exploring Cardassian space during the next movie. IDK what to do with Chekov really. But it will be an elephant in the room that would need to be addressed if there is another movie. And I feel that Jaylah could have evolved to be a chess grandmaster herself at the Academy.
- Kirk, Spock and Bones had a major falling out with each other after BEY and go their separate ways:
Kirk is revealed to have fathered a child with Janice Rand from a fling during his days at the Academy (he’d be the Uhura to her Spock in this case); his child had grown up and leads a rebellion on a Federation colony. Kirk orbital basejumps competitively with Scotty and Jaylah as his support team. Kirk is also revealed to be dyslexic. Maybe he did have a fling with Carol Marcus’s sister-in-law Janet Wallace between his Academy days and BEY and that is the reason Carol left the Enterprise
Spock has a relationship with Sybok, but his mission status is classified; he’s preoccupied with death, maybe from being resuscitated in a Klingon sickbay, or because of Spock Prime; Saavik is still his student, though she is in this universe half-Romulan and half-Vulcan. And she is suspected of being a traitor and caught up in conspiracies. This always put him on the defense to protect Saavik
Bones has become is a follower of Sybok, joining him on his voyage to Sha-ka-ree, and is dating a member of Sybok’s following
- USS Enterprise-A features saucer separation, and its used often on Constitution class ships. Could be borne out of Kirk’s encounter with the Krall and the Swarm.
- The Romulans don’t really do much in TOS movies. But what if they went with the original idea for TSFS and the Romulans sought out Genesis in the Kelvin timeline? And the Romulan captain kills someone close to Kirk – either his mother Winona, his brother Sam, or Carol Marcus. Maybe Saavik is aligned with them and is the one to deliver the Winona/Sam/Carol is dead message, like how Saavik Prime delivered the “David is dead” message.
- If they go down the Khan well again (I would not be surprised if they really wanted to), Marla McGivers is alive and a witness to her husband Khan’s reign of terror. Maybe Khan does destroy a planet with Genesis and does develop psychic powers to fight Kirk. And does whatever possible to damage Kirk’s name.
- If they do another revenge story, I would not mind seeing Shahna relentlessly seeking revenge on Kirk like Khan. Kirk being pursued by a jilted lover would be a different revenge plot than usual. They could probably cast Lady Gaga in the Shanha role.
- Uhura hosts a radio show, or is doing a Doctors Without Borders thing
- Scotty is a Professor of Engineering, taking captured Klingon ships apart in front of his students
- Sulu became captain of the Reliant, and then retired to be a cab driver on a backwater alien planet; he maintains some sort of personal connect to great-great-great grandfather (maybe home videos spliced together from the mid 1980s (child), mid 2020s (middle aged) and mid 2050s/mid 2060s(elderly, played by Takei?). Also, his husband Ben is dead and Sulu raised Demora alone.
- Chekov either became a chess grandmaster, was V’ger’d, ended up in a different universe or timeline, or was simply reassigned to a different ship or starbase. Maybe he took over the Reliant from Sulu and is exploring Cardassian space during the next movie. IDK what to do with Chekov really. But it will be an elephant in the room that would need to be addressed if there is another movie. And I feel that Jaylah could have evolved to be a chess grandmaster herself at the Academy.
- Kirk, Spock and Bones had a major falling out with each other after BEY and go their separate ways:
Kirk is revealed to have fathered a child with Janice Rand from a fling during his days at the Academy (he’d be the Uhura to her Spock in this case); his child had grown up and leads a rebellion on a Federation colony. Kirk orbital basejumps competitively with Scotty and Jaylah as his support team. Kirk is also revealed to be dyslexic. Maybe he did have a fling with Carol Marcus’s sister-in-law Janet Wallace between his Academy days and BEY and that is the reason Carol left the Enterprise
Spock has a relationship with Sybok, but his mission status is classified; he’s preoccupied with death, maybe from being resuscitated in a Klingon sickbay, or because of Spock Prime; Saavik is still his student, though she is in this universe half-Romulan and half-Vulcan. And she is suspected of being a traitor and caught up in conspiracies. This always put him on the defense to protect Saavik
Bones has become is a follower of Sybok, joining him on his voyage to Sha-ka-ree, and is dating a member of Sybok’s following
- USS Enterprise-A features saucer separation, and its used often on Constitution class ships. Could be borne out of Kirk’s encounter with the Krall and the Swarm.
- The Romulans don’t really do much in TOS movies. But what if they went with the original idea for TSFS and the Romulans sought out Genesis in the Kelvin timeline? And the Romulan captain kills someone close to Kirk – either his mother Winona, his brother Sam, or Carol Marcus. Maybe Saavik is aligned with them and is the one to deliver the Winona/Sam/Carol is dead message, like how Saavik Prime delivered the “David is dead” message.
- If they go down the Khan well again (I would not be surprised if they really wanted to), Marla McGivers is alive and a witness to her husband Khan’s reign of terror. Maybe Khan does destroy a planet with Genesis and does develop psychic powers to fight Kirk. And does whatever possible to damage Kirk’s name.
- If they do another revenge story, I would not mind seeing Shahna relentlessly seeking revenge on Kirk like Khan. Kirk being pursued by a jilted lover would be a different revenge plot than usual. They could probably cast Lady Gaga in the Shanha role.
I still feel awful for Spock Prime, stuck in the Kelvinverse, seeing himself as a failure for not having prevented the destruction of Romulus and now to blame (by some) for the destruction of Vulcan in the Kelvinverse. And then for dying there, apart from all his friends. It's too painful an ending for that heroic ficture.
I would like to see time fixed somehow, so that Romulus is not destroyed--so that Nero does not go into the Kelvinverse--so that Spock does not follow him through the wormhole--and so that when he ends his life later in time that he is with those who care about him (Saavik? maybe a family?). Spock doesn't deserve the ending he gets.
I also would like to see Kirk's death undone as well. I hated it in Generations and when I learned the writers thought it would be a great and dramatic plot for the movie, it just seemed mean to the fans.
I would love to see this, too. I think they both got pretty crappy endings for such good guys.
It's sad, yes, but his wisdom is shared with a Vulcan society badly in need after their planet's annihilation. He would believe it for the best. He also gets to do his friends and himself the favor of being a good influence in their lives.
The death is not as important as the legacy left behind.
I never understood the "good death" argument for characters.
I never understood the "good death" argument for characters.
I guess it's because people assume a writer who has the power over how their characters live and die would want to kill them off in a way that means something - either fittingly (heroic/poetic justice/tragically), at a ripe old age, peacefully in their sleep or with all their friends and family around them.
To be able to control the narrative completely and kill your main character(s) off in an offhand or unjust manner seems wrong to watchers and readers.
To be able to control the narrative completely and kill your main character(s) off in an offhand or unjust manner seems wrong to watchers and readers.
That's life.
Is life wrong?
Is life wrong?
People who criticize books, movies and TV don't like aspects of plots despite the fact that such things and even less believable/desirable outcomes populate the real world, thinking a writer who makes everything happen or not happen ought to make the "right" thing happen. Though sometimes the "wrong" thing makes for a better lesson, or a better story overall.
Interesting. So perhaps it was wrong to bring back Spock from the dead in The Search for Spock. I mean, it would be more in keeping with the facts of life to keep him dead. And yet, I did enjoy some of the films that came after Spock was resurrected.
I mean, on some level yes I think bringing Spock back was wrong. I think it undercuts some of the drama from TWOK.
More my curiosity though is how a character's death can be "good?"
To play with the hypothetical you postulated, is Spock's death in TWOK good if that indeed is the end and Nimoy decides to not to reprise the role as the studio thought?
It can be if you build on the aftermath, or let the new character carve their own niche. If you replace him so well that it begins to feel like "Spock? What's a Spock?", it doesn't seem respectful or fitting.
Many people move in and out of our real lives with little fanfare or remembrance, and we don't think anything of it unless we remember them well while everyone else has moved on.
Many people move in and out of our real lives with little fanfare or remembrance, and we don't think anything of it unless we remember them well while everyone else has moved on.
Interesting. This is definitely one place where I always struggle, possibly due to my own experiences with writing and criticism. To me, characters do not require respecting, or "good ends." Characters who function well in the story can die and if it fits the story then that's it. For example, to my mind, the "Man in the Iron Mask" ends very poorly with D'artaganan's death coming very much out of nowhere in the story. It's not his death that bothers me because that feels realistic. It's that the story stops with it. There's no place to process the death.
I don't know if that makes much sense. But respect to characters is an odd idea to me that I struggle with.
I guess people don't like the thought that someone can be gone and forgotten. Maybe it's an outgrowth of their own fears about not leaving a legacy, or, more immediately, their personal significance in the world they inhabit, among the people they work, live, and play with.
True, which in of itself is a fascinating psychological idea that requires a lot more introspection than many humans will engage in.
To me, I go back to the idea of how or when I die is not so important as the people I touched while I was alive. And if they don't remember me that doesn't bother me. There's a song that I personally want played at my memorial that has the line "It don't matter where you bury me."
I am not one to be worried over who remembers me when I'm gone.
Just saw this quote on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=819477623308106&set=a.664616288794241)
That is another point of view.
Just saw this quote on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=819477623308106&set=a.664616288794241)
Certainly I think more of Nimoy than of Spock. I suppose that is good.
I didn't mind that we saw TOS "Our Spock" talking to the new version. At first I hated that they both were in the same place on screen at the same time but then it would have been like that too if TOS Spock had met Disco / SNV version of Spock too. All three can exist at once .
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