Spoilers The Controversial Star Wars Opinion Thread
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It is possible that Palpatine did learn something of the Jedi Force Ghosts and how they operate (at least somewhat) or took inspiration from the World Between Worlds on how to preserve his spirit in the Force, but only enough for his end goal of living forever. It would be a very Sith thing to use a Jedi's skill set for a perverted goal of it s intended use. Meaning he might have gained enough knowledge to survive in the Force as a spirit, but not for long and not without a host body to occupy in short order ("short" being a relative term, we don't know how long it took the Empire to make Sheev a new body or if he was say bound to the chair with no body, or occupying the Force realms until such time as he got a body). If Project Necromancer is Sheev's new clone body, than he might not be back in any physical form yet, even five+ years after his death. But if so...where is he? Has he managed to call the shots from beyond? Did he manage to take over a droid. That would be wild if he did something like the B'omarr monks and had a cloned brain in a jar or droid he could keep issuing commands, but still not have the force until they fixed up a Force sensitive clone body. On face value, Rey's father is a clone of Sheev that was grown before the Battle of Yavin, so Sheev had receptacles for his spirt, just not any with a proper M-count. The question is, did he use one?
Would also explain Palpatine's rabbid desire to escape death itself.
Makes me wonder why anyone would want to even be a Sith, no matter how much power it offered.
Makes me wonder why anyone would want to even be a Sith, no matter how much power it offered.
That would make sense to me, and would explain why he needed a body, but none of the Jedi Force Ghosts that we've seen did. He wasn't really trained in how to do it, so he can't function in that form as well as a fully trained Jedi could.
Whether he knew force ghosts were even possible is immaterial. As a user of the dark side Palpatine was incapable of perceiving that aspect of the force. Once he died; that was it. Oblivion.
This is why the Sith are all obsessed with physical immortality, because the path to true spiritual immortality is closed to them. There are no true Sith ghosts, or Sith spirits. Indeed probably the best proof of this is how the clone bodies kept decaying, and why he needed them in the first place; the force is life and life is the force. Without the vital spark that makes him alive, it's just a mechanical copy of Palpatine's mind. No more Palpatine himself than those creepy hologram droids he made. So the bodies die because there's no presence in the living force guiding them.
As for why the copy in the throne needed a body, that seems fairly obvious; for the same reason the Nightsister "spirits" needed them. Without flesh and blood, they're just information stuck in a technomantic devise. To affect the physical world, they needed physical form. They even said as much.
Of course even a copy of Palpatine would accept nothing less than a body able to easily wield the force, which is likely where Snoke came from; a strandcast homunculus meant to hold his consciousness, but it failed. Twisted and mutated by whatever unnatural process they used to artificially increase the base-line m-count. The succession of rapidly deteriorating clones feels like it was a stop-gap until they could figure out a more long term solution. Indeed the very fact that he needed a body the wield the force at all proves he has no presence on the force itself. He's no force ghost, or spirit, or force entity of any description. He's a sack of meat being puppeteered by a program that thinks it's a person.
Of course the downside of an indoctrinated cult of fanatics conditioned to worship and obey the Sith is that when all they have left is the memory of one shoved into a succession of rapidly decaying corpses (and more importantly, rapidly decaying brains) is that it's going to lead to a lot of nonsensical commands, bizarre plans, and wildly inconsistent behaviour . . . and everyone will just go along with it because they don't know how to do anything else.
Which seems appropriate given that he started life as Nixon allegory, that he should go out as an allegory for the orange cretin, intentionally or otherwise.
This is why the Sith are all obsessed with physical immortality, because the path to true spiritual immortality is closed to them. There are no true Sith ghosts, or Sith spirits. Indeed probably the best proof of this is how the clone bodies kept decaying, and why he needed them in the first place; the force is life and life is the force. Without the vital spark that makes him alive, it's just a mechanical copy of Palpatine's mind. No more Palpatine himself than those creepy hologram droids he made. So the bodies die because there's no presence in the living force guiding them.
As for why the copy in the throne needed a body, that seems fairly obvious; for the same reason the Nightsister "spirits" needed them. Without flesh and blood, they're just information stuck in a technomantic devise. To affect the physical world, they needed physical form. They even said as much.
Of course even a copy of Palpatine would accept nothing less than a body able to easily wield the force, which is likely where Snoke came from; a strandcast homunculus meant to hold his consciousness, but it failed. Twisted and mutated by whatever unnatural process they used to artificially increase the base-line m-count. The succession of rapidly deteriorating clones feels like it was a stop-gap until they could figure out a more long term solution. Indeed the very fact that he needed a body the wield the force at all proves he has no presence on the force itself. He's no force ghost, or spirit, or force entity of any description. He's a sack of meat being puppeteered by a program that thinks it's a person.
Of course the downside of an indoctrinated cult of fanatics conditioned to worship and obey the Sith is that when all they have left is the memory of one shoved into a succession of rapidly decaying corpses (and more importantly, rapidly decaying brains) is that it's going to lead to a lot of nonsensical commands, bizarre plans, and wildly inconsistent behaviour . . . and everyone will just go along with it because they don't know how to do anything else.
Which seems appropriate given that he started life as Nixon allegory, that he should go out as an allegory for the orange cretin, intentionally or otherwise.
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The OS says Palpatine cheated death.
It's as Obi Wan explained to Luke about how he didn't really hide Vader being Luke's father...from a certain perspective. lol
He did cheat Death and the Force, but it cost him greatly. See his decaying body and need for more clone bodies to stay in the "living". He wished to possess another's body who was strong in the Force to return fully to the living world. In the Old EU...that was going to be Anakin Solo (still in his mother's womb). In current Canon, that was Rey, though his method seems oddly similar to what he was trying to get Luke to do to him on the Second Death Star. One wonders if Old Sheev had managed to get his Master's method of living forever to work? Via the Master taking over the Apprentice's body when they ultimately attempt to usurp power and become the Master. If this was an actual talent of the Sith from Darth Bane, than Sheev would very well have been Bane all along.
But it’s Darth Talon that all the fanboys want to see! Lol Wonder what her special powers were…? 
Lucas too. He'd intended her to be Maul's apprentice for the ST. Of course as with Aayla Secura, he just liked the design and would likely and invented a whole new character for her. At least in this version of events, Talon having Nightbrother tattoos would at least make some sense. It would be just like Maul to try and permanently reshape the Sith in his own image and intergrade some Dathomirian warrior traditions and rituals into his apprentice's training.But it’s Darth Talon that all the fanboys want to see! Lol Wonder what her special powers were…?
The fun part of this is that they could still use this to an extent. Outside of his brief appearance in 'Solo', we have no idea what he got up to between fleeing Ahsoka and winding up on Malachor beyond being an underworld boss. That's a good decade and change where almost anything could have happened. There's every chance he found an exceptionally force sensitive Twi'lek girl and took her on as his apprentice. Indeed; his new saber was obviously crafted from that of an Inquisitor (or two) he'd killed; so what if he "rescued" the infant Talon from their clutches in the process, and raised her himself on Dathomir?
I wouldn't put money on this happening, but it's still technically feasible that Talon as the former apprentice of Maul could return in Rey's movie as an antagonist; either as an older woman, or maybe newly freed from the block of carbonite Qi'ra trapped her in when she (possibly) dumped Maul on Malachor.
It would certainly be an interesting parallel to show Rey on the one hand trying to rebuild a Jedi Order from scratch, with Talon doing the same for the Sith Order on the other, and neither of them having any personal experience with the respective original incarnations.
He can't cheat death though; that's the whole point. To become one with the force AND retain individuality requires one to be passive, accepting, selfless to the core and most of all to be able to let go of all attachments. No Sith who is still a Sith is capable of that by sheer definition. It's the very antithesis of everything they are. The dark side is selfish by it's very nature; controlling, greedy, and jealous. A consciousness like that cannot let go of anything, least of all it's attachments to the physical plain, and that inability guarantees their annihilation.
This is why Jedi cremate their dead and move on, while Sith build great tombs and necropoli, and why they errect great statues of themselves; they're obsessed with legacy and immortality of any kind. Why every Sith we've ever seen gets more bloodlessly pale and decrepit the longer they go. Why under the helmet, Vader had the body of a 90 year old man, despite being only 45 at his death. Their power is of the temporal world, it is fuelled by passion, and passion is a thing of the body. There is no separating body and mind for them.
This is why death terrifies them. Haunts them. For someone on the light path, the netherworld of the force is a great cosmic oneness; they rejoice for those that pass beyond the veil and become one with the everything. For the Sith and those like them, it's oblivion. Nothingness. No limbo to linger in, no purgatory to escape from, no existence of any kind. When the body dies, their energy returns to the cosmic force. Instantly. There's no cheating it because there's nothing left to cheat by that point. All they can do is delay the inevitable, but that all hinges on extended the body's life by any means they can find.
Which may have something to do with the fact that they cast an actor in his late 70s.
That's if the master always wins. But maybe the apprentice sometimes wins.
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That’s why I said it was true from a certain perspective…just as Obi Wan played with how the truth was presented, so too, do the Sith. The Sith will lie to their apprentices (according to the Jedi’s perspective) about how they can become so powerful that they can cheat even death!
…and fail to mention the fact that it’s just a simulacrum, not the actual spirit surviving. Or at best, a twilight existence of desperation and body-hopping. Kind of hard to be an emperor when your every moment is focused on maintaining your unnatural presence in the physical realm.
…and fail to mention the fact that it’s just a simulacrum, not the actual spirit surviving. Or at best, a twilight existence of desperation and body-hopping. Kind of hard to be an emperor when your every moment is focused on maintaining your unnatural presence in the physical realm.
Then there was no need to get rid of Byss and the Emperor’s clones if the actual spirit survives and clings vampirically to each new host body. That only makes sense if the spirit is able to survive; otherwise, it’s just a simulacrum and more Sith deception.
New name, new location, new plot devices, new NPCs.
What, exactly, is still "EU" about that?
What, exactly, is still "EU" about that?
Works for me.
What's in a name?
Also, it avoids baggage with the previous EU and not be so frustrated that things are not exactly right, i.e. Dark troopers. I could be mad about it.
But, my blood pressure.
Different names, different time, different place, but still the same plot point and situation. The Emperor lives...after a fashion. And he's going to burn the Galaxy into his Sith Empire, or just burn it in spite. Yet he requires a new host. Someone strong in the Force. Someone he can possess easily and freely. A family connection would be the easy solution...similar genetics, and strong M-count/talent with the Force. All he needs is for her to strike him down with her anger willingly, so he might use that anger and Dark Side power to bridge the gap and take over her soul. At least that seem to be his intent. I wonder if he was going to swap bodies, put Rey's spirit into the dying clone and end her with her own blade, or if he intended to co-habitat with her until he could overpower her spirit and take full control of her body. Assuming he could...she seemed to learn quickly and might have dominated him even in her body.
He's cheating death, but not escaping it. His method still requires a host. His anger and hatred keeping his spirit together for a brief time as it jumps bodies. I could see Lucasfilm retroactively make Palpatine's interest in the World Between Worlds as his escape route. Allow his spirit to jump from the exploding Second Death Star to a fresh clone on Exagol, or Byss or wherever he ended up the first time. Taking over a clone body is quicker, easier, than trying to take over Luke or Vader's bodies in the moment, and I doubt any of the Imperials onboard could have contained him without dropping dead themselves.
He's cheating death, but not escaping it. His method still requires a host. His anger and hatred keeping his spirit together for a brief time as it jumps bodies. I could see Lucasfilm retroactively make Palpatine's interest in the World Between Worlds as his escape route. Allow his spirit to jump from the exploding Second Death Star to a fresh clone on Exagol, or Byss or wherever he ended up the first time. Taking over a clone body is quicker, easier, than trying to take over Luke or Vader's bodies in the moment, and I doubt any of the Imperials onboard could have contained him without dropping dead themselves.
So, it's the same, but all the details have changed. Gotcha.
Uh, how is that the same, then?
Answer: it's not. That's like saying, "Well, even though it's not a Windows PC, the macbook still is the same--still connects to the internet, still does word processing, and still stores files." Two completely different machines despite superficial similarities. At this point, I'd be more interested in hearing about IG-88 taking over the second death star than yet another movie based on Sith bullshit.
Uh, how is that the same, then?
Answer: it's not. That's like saying, "Well, even though it's not a Windows PC, the macbook still is the same--still connects to the internet, still does word processing, and still stores files." Two completely different machines despite superficial similarities. At this point, I'd be more interested in hearing about IG-88 taking over the second death star than yet another movie based on Sith bullshit.
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