What is your personal head canon?

[Tenacity]

Or maybe the person at the station doesn't need to be fully down with every aspect of the ship's design... as long as you have someone on board who had the necessary knowledge, and can take over if necessary.

I wonder if that would work for all the ship's stations, say have someone at the helm who only knew how to pilot the ship in a straight line and change speed, but a more experienced office would come to the bridge for evasive maneuvers.

The only greater good Section 31 is interested in is their own.

But when do we see this? Section 31 acting SOLELY for their own best interests? You don't like their methods fine, but their aim was the Federation's survival.

 

[Citiprime]

The only greater good Section 31 is interested in is their own.

Expanding their power in the name of good.

What made Section 31 compelling in DS9 is that Sloan has a point, and Bashir's idealism is well-placed and admirable, but in the end naive.

For example, DS9's "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" pivots around the very real-world politics idea of whether Section 31 and Admiral Ross are right to install a Federation asset into a position of power by framing an honest Romulan woman who has been a fair and decent partner cooperating with the Federation.

You can argue with their methods, but Ross is absolutely right in believing that a "patriot" is going to make a decision based on what's best for her people, and not necessarily what's best for the Federation or the rest of the Alpha Quadrant. With billions of people dying in the Dominion War, do you really want to take the chance that the Romulan Star Empire (i.e., a government that has never been trustworthy at any point in Trek canon) is not going to cut a favorable deal and turn on you if the opportunity occurred?

Also, add into this that ultimately the turning point of the Dominion War arc is a very Section 31-like conspiracy executed by Sisko and Garak. They do an awful thing that violates laws and ethics for the greater good of the Alpha Quadrant.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But when do we see this? Section 31 acting SOLELY for their own best interests? You don't like their methods fine, but their aim was the Federation's survival.

The mere fact that Section 31 operates with absolutely no oversight, literally doing WHATEVER THEY WANT, is all the proof I need.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, because as we know no one operates in the interest of others without oversight.

 

[Tenacity]

literally doing WHATEVER THEY WANT

But (again) when did we see this?

You said the Section 31 is only interested in is their own greater good. When did see actions that only help Section 31 and in no way the Federation?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

But (again) when did we see this?

We’ve known it ever since DS9’s “Inquisition”.

And in “Extreme Measures” we learn that S31 had a SPY in President Jareah-Inyo’s Cabinet! What more proof do you require?

 

[Citiprime]

The mere fact that Section 31 operates with absolutely no oversight, literally doing WHATEVER THEY WANT, is all the proof I need.

Can't "no oversight, literally doing WHATEVER THEY WANT" be applied to a lot of contexts which usually describes characters and groups that people see as a positive source for good beyond their own interests?

For example, that same statement basically applies to Captain America, Iron Man, and the Avengers and the audience is not led to believe they're doing what they're doing solely for their own interests. Batman and Superman have no oversight.

We're never led to believe that Sloan is lying to Bashir about his motives. And the justification is basically the same as Batman's; they go beyond laws and norms to attack the "bad guys" and threats so normal people can live in peace. When Picard tells an alien culture that if the Federation isn't wanted they'll leave them alone, I don't get the feeling that Section 31 is out there plotting to find a way to assimilate them into the Federation anyway. And while they might have a source in Jaresh Inyo's cabinet, there's nothing to indicate they want to be the government. The only time we see a coup attempt against the Federation, it comes from within Starfleet who are people with oversight.

 

[Oddish]

Section 31 was amoral and ruthless, but there were limits on how far they could dmgo. Remember that they dependent on Starfleet's willingness to either look the other way or outright climb in bed with them, like Ross did in Inter Arma. Say what you want about S31 committing genocide, but remember that the targets of their attack were just as genocidal as they were.

 

[Farscape One]

The Founders were worse, actually, because they not only committed genocide on who knows how many races, but they gave the Teplans the Blight just so they would serve as an example to other races.

That's a deep level of nasty. Section 31 wouldn't even do that... they'd simply eliminate a threat.

 

[Oddish]

That's why I can at least understand S31's actions...
1. They were attempting to put the Dominion out of the fight. The Vorta were its voice, and the Jem'Hadar were its fists... but the Founders were its brain.
2. They were attacking a group whose idea of first contact was mass murder, and who responded to those who defied them with either genocide (800 million Cardassians dead) or, as @Farscape One said, global torture.

 

[FredH]

I no longer hold to this, but for a long time I pictured Starfleet bridge crews as actually being a given ship’s primary exploration team — they are department heads because the departments are specifically there to support and inform them — and that’s why they tend to form the landing party/Away Team for important missions.

 

[fireproof78]

We’ve known it ever since DS9’s “Inquisition”.

And in “Extreme Measures” we learn that S31 had a SPY in President Jareah-Inyo’s Cabinet! What more proof do you require?

This is not the proof you seem to think it is. Yes, they are serving their interests in keeping their power to suooirt their mission but the mission has been shown ti be protecting the Federation at all costs, no matter how immoral or viscious the means are.

We see Starfleet engaging in more conspiracies to undermine Federation policies yet Starfleet supposedly has oversight. Others have given examples, but you have admirals like Dougherty, Leyton, Pressman, Cartwright, all able to engage in unethical behaviors, and some with government blessings.

I might not agree with Section 31 but I get their point.

 

[Farscape One]

It's interesting that an organization with no oversight performs acts more in the interest of preserving the Federation than an organization with oversight.

It adds even more weight to what Sloan said to Bashir in "INQUISITION" after he says, "It seems your loyalty to the Federation is above reproach."

 

[The Wormhole]

When Picard tells an alien culture that if the Federation isn't wanted they'll leave them alone, I don't get the feeling that Section 31 is out there plotting to find a way to assimilate them into the Federation anyway.

Eh, I'm sure that's happened at some point. If there is a planet which could hold potential value to the Federation but they didn't want to join, Section 31 is almost certainly going to go in and "convince" them to join.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Universe was feeling the impact of time meddling in "Space Seed" which is why the date of Eugenics Wars fluctuates between the 20th and 21st Centuries throughout the episode.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It's interesting that an organization with no oversight performs acts more in the interest of preserving the Federation than an organization with oversight.

It adds even more weight to what Sloan said to Bashir in "INQUISITION" after he says, "It seems your loyalty to the Federation is above reproach."

It's kind of like how many Super Hero's are loyal to the crusade / mission that they were originally on.
Kind of like how in many incarnations of Batman, he's loyal to Justice itself with only a few stories telling of it's deviations due to circumstances.

Same with Superman, and his original mission to protect humanity.

 

[Oddish]

Eh, I'm sure that's happened at some point. If there is a planet which could hold potential value to the Federation but they didn't want to join, Section 31 is almost certainly going to go in and "convince" them to join.

That seems kind of mafia-esque. S31 is more likely going to manipulate events so that a pro-Federation faction gains political traction, gains control, and gives the Federation what they want. And not even the negotiation team ever knows what really happened.

 

[The Wormhole]

Yeah, that's what I meant by "convince." In the end, the planet would have joined the Federation because Section 31 got involved, not because they genuinely wanted to, even if they are manipulated into thinking they did it willingly.

 

[SalyutBuran]

- Savvak was actually the traitor. I know this was the original plan but it's not canon. Also their relationship was like father/adoptive daughter.

In my head canon she helped 13 year old me get through pon far.

But seriously probably the most underrated vulcan performance in trek/absolutely the best part of star trek 3.

-Money may not exist but assists do. It was the wealthy people of the past that we see in the shows now who own things. Picard vineyard , Kirk's family farm. They were the rich people of the past.

You're assuming land is valuable in that era. Land would be quite cheap globally if we had federation technologies that would make things like irrigation/transit etc affordable. My family owns a bunch of land, it's just not in a place which would make it worth money.

I would think there's something very very totalitarian about creating a world where you can't have money. I think the idea is that money is about your share of the resources, not about manipulating things so you can take someone else's share.

 

[fireproof78]

I would think there's something very very totalitarian about creating a world where you can't have money. I think the idea is that money is about your share of the resources, not about manipulating things so you can take someone else's share.

All money is a an agreed upon means of exchange. If the Federation near unlimited resources, food, clothing, housing, an agreed upon means of exchange is reasonable.