Your opinion on SNWs Gorn

[Mr J]

Monsters are fun.

And interesting.

Humans are monsters.

Ask a cow.

The problem for me is that cows don't have space ships and technology - the Gorn seem to, but that doesn't seem to fit with their rabid monster thing they've got going on at the moment straight out of Alien. I want to see a bit more.

I'm not saying I want hugs and meeting in the middle understanding - but I'd like to shift away from monsters to "they're SO alien its just not easy to comprehend them". At the moment I'm just struggling to get where the intelligence sits, and that doesn't seem to fit with their status as an advanced tech space-faring race.

 

[Dar70]

I'm pretty sure the adult Gorn is mostly a practical suit and an animatronic head with some CGI touches, I think the tail is all CGI except in close-ups.

I personally feel the whole look was cheap and not much better than ENT. I rewatched the scene. There was definitely CGI touches on the face as you say and the tail I could tell first watch it was CGI. I would have preferred a tailless Gorn. Didn't Janeway run into a bunch of dinosaur people in an episode??? Lol
I forget if they had tails or not....

 

[valkyrie013]

Well, Maybe there homeworld and there place in it is Drastically different from what we have here.
We, Humans, take our time growing up 18 years give or take for an adult. We can do that because we are realitivly large and are realitivly safe. Then take Cats or other animals that grow to adult size within a year, sometimes less.

Now, with the Gorn, maybe they were like the Velociraptors, NOT on top of the food chain in any way, so they developed ways of incubating there eggs in hosts, and when hatched, grow large enough in a short time to where they can survive.
Those that survived long enough to become an Adult Gorn, would make the societal progress.

We tend to take our own Bias's and experiences into account when looking into things. Saying HOW could the do X or Y.. well, its part of there experiance and way they grew up.. You don't know, so your opinion is a bit invalid.

 

[V'Lias]

I personally feel the whole look was cheap and not much better than ENT. I rewatched the scene. There was definitely CGI touches on the face as you say and the tail I could tell first watch it was CGI. I would have preferred a tailless Gorn. Didn't Janeway run into a bunch of dinosaur people in an episode??? Lol
I forget if they had tails or not....

I think that was the Voth, it's been a while since I saw anything from Voyager though.
At this point I'm pretty neutral on the adult Gorn design, at least until we see it without a spacesuit. I do like that they tried to use some practical effects for them!

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think that was the Voth, it's been a while since I saw anything from Voyager though.
At this point I'm pretty neutral on the adult Gorn design, at least until we see it without a spacesuit. I do like that they tried to use some practical effects for them!

More than some. Puppets, animatronics, guy in a suit, the works. The only thing they didn’t do was glue bits of plastic on an actors face.

 

[V'Lias]

More than some. Puppets, animatronics, guy in a suit, the works. The only thing they didn’t do was glue bits of plastic on an actors face.

I just finished up the segment with the prop makers, that was quite the setup they had. The guy in the suit was probably glad to sit down at the end of the day!

 

[Markonian]

Now that I think of it, the viciousness of the new Gorn reminds me of the extragalactic Gorn from the 2013 game Star Trek. I like it.

 

[Gepard]

Yes to the newborn Gorn being mindless animals. Yes to adult Gorn being scary raptor men in space suits. Yes to the Lovecraftian space ships and communication via light.

No to the Xenomorph lifestyle. No to the baby Gorn being able to reproduce (what's the "adult" phase even for, evolutionarily, then?). No to the eggs being implanted by spitting venom, an idea so silly and dumb it doesn't even deserve attention.

 

[Schlegelmilch]

Generic modern bad guys, seemly unbeatable monsters. TOS Gorn may have looked silly, but the story was more interesting, at least so far. Maybe the story ends strong but I'm not optimistic. Frankly, I'm more annoyed that Captain Pike turned into Commodore Stocker. All the TOS continuity issues with Arena would have been mute, if they picked another name for this enemy.

 

[Mudd]

All the TOS continuity issues with Arena would have been mute, if they picked another name for this enemy.

They're moot anyway.

 

[Mudd]

The problem for me is that cows don't have space ships and technology - the Gorn seem to, but that doesn't seem to fit with their rabid monster thing they've got going on at the moment straight out of Alien. I want to see a bit more.

I'm not saying I want hugs and meeting in the middle understanding - but I'd like to shift away from monsters to "they're SO alien its just not easy to comprehend them". At the moment I'm just struggling to get where the intelligence sits, and that doesn't seem to fit with their status as an advanced tech space-faring race.

The cows in my analogy weren't Gorn. They were human.

You're trying to slot the aliens into what you think is an "intelligent" pattern by making them easily understandable. If they don't care for their young or bond with them in a familiar way, or have "humane" values regarding life, you don't see how they can develop intelligence throughout their lifecycles or build a civilization. Why do you think that? Because you've only seen the human model.

So many fans say they want to see more aliens, but when they get a species that doesn't fit into the Star Trek "Fedroid" box they don't know what to do with it.

For an alien species - and a rather reptilian one - whose life-cycle is sufficiently different to unnerve the human protagonist in his beliefs about evolution, read A Case of Conscience.

 

[Timofnine]

If they do not end up being the playthings of the Metron’s, I really am not interested.

 

[Annorax849]

Not really a fan, but I appreciate the artistry and practical effects.

 

[Finn]

Now that I think of it, the viciousness of the new Gorn reminds me of the extragalactic Gorn from the 2013 game Star Trek. I like it.
View attachment 35999

Looks like a Rancor with a humanoid body.

 

[Schlegelmilch]

They're moot anyway.

Is it? Have the show runners announced that season 1 of TOS is no longer in continuity? They hinted that it might be in one episode this season, but the official position is that SNW is prequel to TOS. They would be better off severing the two. Each have their own continuity. I think their writing themselves into a corner if they try to circle that square.

 

[Finn]

Is it? Have the show runners announced that season 1 of TOS is no longer in continuity? They hinted that it might be in one episode this season, but the official position is that SNW is prequel to TOS. They would be better off severing the two. Each have their own continuity. I think their writing themselves into a corner if they try to circle that square.

It doesn't matter. Just enjoy the show. The writing and acting has been excellent. So what if the Gorn appears different than in TOS?

 

[Mudd]

Is it?

Yep.

Have the show runners announced that season 1 of TOS is no longer in continuity?

Nope.

They've said that they're changing some things.

Two stories can contradict each other and still be in official continuity. It happens often enough.

They hinted that it might be in one episode this season,

They didn't hint at that.

but the official position is that SNW is prequel to TOS.

And it is.

They would be better off severing the two. Each have their own continuity. I think their writing themselves into a corner if they try to circle that square.

Nope. They're doing just fine.

 

[TheFlutteringHorde]

Is it? Have the show runners announced that season 1 of TOS is no longer in continuity? They hinted that it might be in one episode this season, but the official position is that SNW is prequel to TOS. They would be better off severing the two. Each have their own continuity. I think their writing themselves into a corner if they try to circle that square.

Season 1 of TOS is canon.

Strange New Worlds is canon.

Lower Decks is canon.

Just because something seems contrary to a previous episode doesn't mean they suddenly exist in two different continuities. They contradict and exist in the same canon. Just like TNG and DS9 didn't split into different continuities over the Trill.

 

[Schlegelmilch]

I've never denied that both SNW & TOS Gorn are in continuity. I've argued that there is no need for the contradiction. The show runners could have just picked a different name and the story is unchanged. In Arena, the fact that the Enterprise crew is unfamiliar with the Gorn is essential to the story. SNW would be better off finding its own course. Severing continuity would do that. Apparently, a lot of people disagree. That's ok.

 

[Citiprime]

My opinion is that Strange New World's version of the Gorn is what you get when you ripoff Alien and Predator while at the same time screwing with a franchise's continuity.

If they wanted to go this direction, call it something else. Call them something with little to no background. Call them the Tzenkethi. Or here's an idea. Be creative and make them something new that we've never even heard of before.

Akiva Goldsman just gave an interview where he explicitly says "The Gorn are monsters" and they have no intention of resolving any differences between SNW and TOS. And the reason why he can't resolve the differences is because SNW's version of the Gorn totally goes against the point of TOS's "Arena."

The twist of "Arena" is realizing the whole mess is a misunderstanding. The Gorn aren’t monsters, savages, animals or facehuggers on LV-426. They're people who made a horrible choice to attack the colony, but may have done it thinking they were defending themselves from invaders. The episode is ultimately about how Kirk is able to have empathy for giant lizard men that just murdered a bunch of people because he recognizes that maybe the entire situation is a giant mistake.

And SNW's approach so far totally undercuts that. They basically present the Gorn as dangerous savages that are parasites who can't be reasoned with. I don't think this reinterpretation is better in any way.