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Spoilers Marvel Cinematic Universe spoiler-heavy speculation thread

What grade would you give the Marvel Cinematic Universe? (Ever-Changing Question)

  • Total voters
    185
My current feeling on MCU TV ranked:
  1. Loki: Clearly the best show. Perhaps not coincidentally, it's also the only show where they didn't shoehorn in a stupid superhero fight in the final episode.
  2. WandaVision: The early episodes were fantastic, but once the show moved away from Wanda's grief to the stupid showdown with Agatha Harkness it lost focus.
  3. Hawkeye: I like that the show did what it set out to do, be a relatively "family-friendly" holiday caper. Had appropriately low stakes for an origin story as well. I think it was a bit too overstuffed in places (introducing Echo, Yelena, etc.) but it held together okay.
  4. She-Hulk: Understood it was a TV show, which is a big plus in my book. Also understood that the stakes should be kept low in these shows. Also really pissed off some of the worst people on the internet, which adds bonus points.
  5. Moon Knight: Fine, really. It left the least impact of any of the MCU shows, positive or negative.
  6. Ms. Marvel: Wanted to like this more. Every time it focused on Kamala's family drama and the teen coming-of-age stuff it was great. But adding the subplot about the Clandestines and the whole universe being threatened with destruction was just dumb, and totally inappropriate for this show.
  7. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier: Showed promise initially, but the last episode really screwed up the momentum they had built up, by giving John Walker a halfhearted, unearned redemption when he should have been the antagonist for Sam. Still, the good aspects (Bucky and Sam's chemistry, Isaiah Bradley) were enough to get enjoyment out of the show.
  8. What If...?: I honestly didn't like many episodes other than the Doctor Strange one, but they were fine for what they were.
  9. Secret Invasion: Tedious pacing, nonsensical plot, no character development, and absolutely atrocious themes.
 
I don't really remember the series well enough to really analyze them, so I'm just going with my initial gut instinct when I think about who I'd rate them.
Hawkeye, Loki, WandaVision, Ms. Marvle, and She-Hulk would be my top series, with The Falcon & The Winter Soldier, Moon Knight, and What If...? after them, and Secret Invasion at the bottom.
 
1. WandaVision - This is one of the best and most unique pieces to ever exist in the entire genre.
2. Werewolf by Night - This is easily the second best thing Marvel D+ has produced in quality terms.
3. Loki - I enjoyed it a whole lot. Whether it truly makes sense or not, I will remain largely agnostic until season 2.
4. What If? - I'm a sucker for alternate universes. Almost all of these ones were good and a few were great.
5. Ms. Marvel - My favorite character, not handled exactly as I'd like but the casting/performance is perfect. The show had issues, but mostly was a strong adaptation of the character's style if not entirely her substance.
6. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier - At first glance, one of the best shows. Badly let down in the end by the final few episodes. But the first half was fantastic.
7. Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special - Very much a corny holiday special, but pitch perfect in achieving what its trying to achieve. Also, Santa is a furry freak with epic superpowers.
8. She-Hulk - Pretty good as a superhero sitcom, definitely not afraid to experiment. Heavily burdened by the effects that just made it really hard for me to suspend disbelief in general.
9. Moon Knight - Lots of great ideas, very muddled execution. Still, occassionally really fun at least. And I, for one, welcome our Kaiju Crocodile overlords.
10. Hawkeye - Brilliant character scenes between Clint, Kate, Yelena and Echo. Offensively terrible plot constantly threatening to drown out the actual good parts at every turn.
11. Secret Invasion - The only show that I genuinely don't think actually achieved anything good at all. The only good thing to be said about it is down to the actors having natural gravitas and charm, but even that doesn't go anywhere since not one character is even remotely well-written.
 
  1. Loki - The best of the ones I watch
  2. WandaVision - I finished it, although it turned into the usual CGI snoozefest
  3. Moon Knight - OK, but again got worse as it went on.
  4. Werewolf by Night - Enjoyable bit of fun.
  5. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Good to start with but went downhill.
  6. Hawkeye - I managed the first episode and was bored.

  • What If? - Never seen.
  • Ms. Marvel - Never seen.
  • Secret Invasion - never seen
  • She-Hulk - Never seen.
  • Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special - Never seen.
 
Damn, I didn't think to include the two holiday specials, mostly because they were one-offs (for now) and not full seasons.

I loved both but especially Werewolf by Night. The special took some big swings with the format and style (much like WandaVision, She-Hulk, and Moon Knight) and I loved all of the characters, particularly the three who survived. I hope we'll see them again sooner than later.

Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special also took some big swings but more align to the Guardians' crazy adventures. I simply adore Kevin Bacon for being such a big sport in going along with our beloved but wacky characters.

With that in mind, I also forgot the Baby Groot specials. Full season but much shorter episodes. Overall, they don't add much to the canon (from what I recall from my single viewing) but they were a lot of fun and that's about all we can hope for with Baby Groot mini-adventures.
 
Secret Invasion and Wandavision are the tv shows that fell flat for me. The rest I thoroughly enjoyed.
 
Morpheus 02 said:
Also Falcon & Winter Soldier was high due to the different social issues they addressed, as well as really showing a true continuity of character (as we began to meet Sam, he was a counselor...we see him do that, and show his Captain AMerica-Worthiness in a good way in the show).
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It was the only Marvel streaming series to perfectly support/fit its chapter of the MCU with intensity and maturity of the kind seen in the franchise's undeniably greatest entry The Winter Soldier (with the first Cap film coming in second place). TFATWS captured decades' worth of the Cap comics' sociopolitical plots without feeling the need to be something so typical of MCU productions: merely a set up for the next big explosion. This series had something to say, and seamlessly blended that with the fantasy elements.

While i totally get not wanting to mass produce DVD's.... wouldn't it make sense to license out to speciality dealers who can MAKE individual hary copy DVD's for people who want to buy them?
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In theory, part of the business model is to force viewers to rely on / pay for streaming services exclusively (thus the customer loses the option to own specific content on physical media and have the power to not spend money on content they do not care for). There's no reason Disney would not license out other physical media companies to release content, as we have numerous examples of that happening over the years with Universal, who granted Shout Factory to right to release the rest of the Jack Webb TV shows that Universal did not finish (Dragnet & Adam-12), while Kino Lorber (a fantastic company for classics and rare films, BTW) has recently released Universal's Rod Serling's Night Gallery on Blu-ray. So, its a practice that has a long history, which circles this back to why Disney would not do the same with certain Marvel titles--other than the theory posted above.
 
I liked the acting talent, the set design, it had decent effects, it kept me interested. It was "fun". But I wanted it to be consistent with my understanding of Endgame and I couldn't really get there.
 
It's a little disappointing thinking about the movement of moving away from physical media. Despite the abundance of streaming services, we have less selection now than we did when Blockbuster was around. And the selection that we have is more difficult to find. I recently wanted to catch up on old films that I had never seen, and am relying heavily on my libraries DVD collection as I can't find them streaming services or for rent.
 
theenglish said:
It's a little disappointing thinking about the movement of moving away from physical media. Despite the abundance of streaming services, we have less selection now than we did when Blockbuster was around. And the selection that we have is more difficult to find. I recently wanted to catch up on old films that I had never seen, and am relying heavily on my libraries DVD collection as I can't find them streaming services or for rent.
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Streaming is a good innovation, but it makes no sense that it's come to be seen as a replacement for other outlets, rather than an addition to them. That's pretty much entirely a function of the greed of executives wanting to corral everything they own under their monopolistic control.

I saw a tweet from a producer pointing out that the move of streaming services to pull shows or movies from their catalogs and market them to other providers is actually a good thing, because they'll get wider exposure on home video or network/cable TV and the creators will get much better residuals. Basically it's a step toward returning things to the viable system that used to exist before streaming broke it.
 
Christopher said:
Streaming is a good innovation, but it makes no sense that it's come to be seen as a replacement for other outlets, rather than an addition to them. That's pretty much entirely a function of the greed of executives wanting to corral everything they own under their monopolistic control.

I saw a tweet from a producer pointing out that the move of streaming services to pull shows or movies from their catalogs and market them to other providers is actually a good thing, because they'll get wider exposure on home video or network/cable TV and the creators will get much better residuals. Basically it's a step toward returning things to the viable system that used to exist before streaming broke it.
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I have always suspected it's why major movies switch services a couple months before sequel releases. Eg. Dune moved off WB affiliated international streamers and went to Netflix in June. So a new audience can watch the previous entry before the new one comes out, this hopefully increasing theatrical box office.
 
Secret Invasion started out a lot stronger than it ended. There were things to like and even have affection for in this series but it definitely ends up in my lower tier of Disney+ Marvel series.
 
TREK_GOD_1 said:
...because it did not make sense, and was not particularly entertaining. The first Thor film was the last time Loki was an interesting character.
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Disney has this perennial issue across all of its franchises now that they just don't want to commit to a villain protagonist or even an antihero. They feel like the MC of every story has to be presented sympathetically. Witness how they neutered Boba Fett, and made him boring. Or couldn't make Cruella actually evil. Or how more recent Disney/Pixar films (Encanto, Raya and the Last Dragon, Seeing Red, Strange World, etc) lacked any real villain at all.

I firmly believe if the Agatha Harkness show ever actually sees the light of day, she'll be morphed into a good character as well.
 
Not to defend Disney, but a redemption angle for Boba Fett wasn't exactly the least predictable thing to do. Disney stole a lot of ideas from the pre-Disney Star Wars EU which had already gone there.
 
eschaton said:
Disney has this perennial issue across all of its franchises now that they just don't want to commit to a villain protagonist or even an antihero. They feel like the MC of every story has to be presented sympathetically. Witness how they neutered Boba Fett, and made him boring. Or couldn't make Cruella actually evil. Or how more recent Disney/Pixar films (Encanto, Raya and the Last Dragon, Seeing Red, Strange World, etc) lacked any real villain at all.

I firmly believe if the Agatha Harkness show ever actually sees the light of day, she'll be morphed into a good character as well.
Click to expand...

Star Wars did that to Fett long before Disney did. And having no central villain isn't really a bad thing.

Agatha WAS a heroine in the comics.
 
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