Federation Utopia
- Thread starter Voodoowoman2
- Start date
Like oh, for sure, there's still problems on Earth. I bet one person gets killed every 12 hours, but for a world wide pheomeon, multiplied across most Core and Mid and even Low worlds of the Federation, nearly everything in the Federation is still appealing.
No one is saying there aren't problems, and some people need drive to do things, 'jobs', but we can easily concoct what the future is doing. Earth is still a post-nuclear landscape, so a lot of rebuilding and healing is probably forte, architecture, maybe even more 'manual' analog construction jobs and environmental steading on massive scales. Even hundreds of years of this coming in and out of vogue probably wouldn't be enough to solve all of Earth's inherent issues, then maintaining that, along with updates to the infrastructure and maintaining that would demand a workforce.I could also imagine a lot of demolition of old infill and nature reclamation projects as well. Health would also big a big thing on the forefront.
We know Earth is getting to the point to make a bonafide Atlantis probably because of boredom, environmental expansion, or both.
Vulcans show a distinct allure for the metaphysical and internal philosphy. Andorians have (apparently) to deal with a virus thinning their numbers down over successive generations. So on and so on. There's still plenty to *do* even in the Trek era, on top of social functions and jockeying and creative outlets.
No one is saying there aren't problems, and some people need drive to do things, 'jobs', but we can easily concoct what the future is doing. Earth is still a post-nuclear landscape, so a lot of rebuilding and healing is probably forte, architecture, maybe even more 'manual' analog construction jobs and environmental steading on massive scales. Even hundreds of years of this coming in and out of vogue probably wouldn't be enough to solve all of Earth's inherent issues, then maintaining that, along with updates to the infrastructure and maintaining that would demand a workforce.I could also imagine a lot of demolition of old infill and nature reclamation projects as well. Health would also big a big thing on the forefront.
We know Earth is getting to the point to make a bonafide Atlantis probably because of boredom, environmental expansion, or both.
Vulcans show a distinct allure for the metaphysical and internal philosphy. Andorians have (apparently) to deal with a virus thinning their numbers down over successive generations. So on and so on. There's still plenty to *do* even in the Trek era, on top of social functions and jockeying and creative outlets.
Whenever people strongly imply that we need war - naked conflict, essentially - in order to advance technologically, I look at green energy, climate change and SPACE EXPLORATION while thinking "Really? You can't conceive of more creative and less destructive outlets in which to innovate?"
I think the conflict will come from approaches. Not everyone has patience to work hard and get things done in a long term way. I would imagine there rare still people who just want to get the job done and move past it. Conflict might not be warfare but conflict in attitude towards work may still very well exist.
You should see some other countries, the speed enforcement & traffic enforcement are 100% digitally automated.
You can't travel a single km w/o being observed by a Camera & Radar Sensor.
Forget about being pulled over, the moment you leave your house, your vehicle is under observation all the time for violating traffic rules.
It used to be a running joke with my friends that I'm the only one who gets pulled over while my engine is still cold. Can't tell you how many times I've had a police car zoom in behind me to run my plates. Didn't matter if I was obeying all the rules and others were zipping past me at warp nine, running stop signs, etc.
DWB...
Clearly you haven't watched enough Stargate otherwise you'd know that the Acropolis, Stonehenge, Pyramids obviously, and anything else pre-700AD is already a shuttle pad
I hope a week later isn’t enough to count as a necro—
Seems to me that while 24th-century Earth is probably Utopian, the 24-century Federation—while mostly pretty great—can’t be, simply because of realpolitik it’s (arguably had to) engage in. I’m not talking about the harder-edged stuff in Picard. Back in classic TNG, the Federation is mostly close buddies with the Klingon Empire, which we’ve no indication is any less a brutal military dictatorship than it was in the old days. Just that right there means that if the Empire ever falls, plenty of former subject species will have reason to hate the Federation for having looked the other way.
And Data says early on (in I forget which early Ferengi episode) that in keeping to the Prime Directive, the Federation has at times allowed the strong to devour the weak.
In both cases, the Federation isn’t necessarily wrong to do this; it might be the only workable approach. But utopian it ain’t.
Seems to me that while 24th-century Earth is probably Utopian, the 24-century Federation—while mostly pretty great—can’t be, simply because of realpolitik it’s (arguably had to) engage in. I’m not talking about the harder-edged stuff in Picard. Back in classic TNG, the Federation is mostly close buddies with the Klingon Empire, which we’ve no indication is any less a brutal military dictatorship than it was in the old days. Just that right there means that if the Empire ever falls, plenty of former subject species will have reason to hate the Federation for having looked the other way.
And Data says early on (in I forget which early Ferengi episode) that in keeping to the Prime Directive, the Federation has at times allowed the strong to devour the weak.
In both cases, the Federation isn’t necessarily wrong to do this; it might be the only workable approach. But utopian it ain’t.
Belated further thought on non-utopia: In the 32nd century, Ni Var — a respected and now re-upped Federation member — is having to put down insurgencies! That’s a surprisingly 21st-century problem for Vulcan to have. (Presumably the insurgents are either Logic Fundamentalists or Romulan (or Vulcan) Separatists of some sort, though it’s never specified.)
Insurgencies are a historic problem, not a 21st century one. It's absurd to think it's vanished.
They “looked the other way” before they were allies: that’s an internal matter of the Klingon Empire, per the Prime Directive. While allies one imagines concessions were made and influence flexed.
The Klingon Captain in I think TNG’s “Heart of Glory” (where it looked like the Klingons were full Federation members by that point) commented on how domesticated or whatever the Klingons had become in recent years.
In return, the design of the shiny new Vor’cha attack cruiser was noted by I think Sternbach or someone as having Federation influences.
What other species have done more or anything for Klingon subjects?
Also, the Klingons are not monsters. Per Ronald D Moore’s memo to Michael Piller:
This is not to say that the member worlds of the Klingon Empire are straining at the bit to break away from despotic rule.
Quite the contrary, the member worlds of the empire have learned the many advantages and benefits of their association with the Klingons and few would choose to leave even if given the option. The Klingons are notevil tyrannical pirates bent onlyon pillage and plunder. They have a strict almost unyielding code of ethics and honor and take their responsibilities as rulers seriously.
How do you define Utopian? Sticking their noses in everyone’s business, both culturally and militarily, forcing their way of life on all within their reach, or, that is, whatever way of life the current administration adheres to?
What the post-apocalyptic Federation is like is anyone’s guess. But they do love their shit-replicated apples.
^ also, helping them out after they over-mined their main energy production facility on Praxis, to the point where they were heading to become “the alien trash of the galaxy,” probably helped the Federation’s position. They could have been easy pickings for both the Federation and the Romulans. And others…
From Memory Alpha:
From Memory Alpha:
K'mpec further argued that a Klingon civil war would inevitably involve neighboring powers – the Tholian Assembly, the Ferengi Alliance, and ultimately the Romulan Star Empire.
Klingons were conquerors and aggressive and used labor camps in TOS. I would hope something would change in the makings of peace.
Praxis.
Or other factors. Many real world nations used slave labor, conducted genocides…things change.
Here’s hoping the abandonment of money and formation of a non-military space fleet is next.
I doubt Praxis would change their expansionist ways. Other than not being able to compete.
Again, they were on the brink of becoming the alien trash of the galaxy, and half the admirals in Starfleet wanted to clean their chronometers. The Federation could have set terms for their assistance, and the Klingons could have found they didn’t really mind them, cultural posturing aside.
They’re not monsters any more than any one else. Pick up a newspaper or history book and you’ll find us behaving as bad as any Klingon. War, slavery, genocide, rape, lynching, etc. Maybe forced into doing things differently they redefined “what it means to be a Klingon.”
Qho said they were monsters? I'm asking for demonstration of reform. An evolution, if you excuse the term.
Forcing behavioral change does not promise success or even a change in belief or values.
But it can. For some simply trying on something new, without it being something they at the outset frame as something to be bitter about or rebel against, can lead to new perspective, internalization of it, and lasting change. This is especially true for younger generations without the earlier programming or baggage.
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