Federation Utopia

[Citiprime]

Hmmmm. I don't see humanity even in this fictional universe as overcoming tribalism, racism, or sexism. Kirk hates the Klingons. Spock is subjected to bigotry.

Bigotry and prejudice may still exist, but as far as bigotry among humans on Earth it is gone. The present-day systemic, structural racism/sexism/tribalism on Earth among humans no longer exists. No human has to worry about going hungry or being discriminated against on Earth because of the color of their skin or where they come from.

That's a fundamental aspect of Star Trek's depiction of humanity's future.

From TNG's "Time's Arrow, Part II":

TROI: Poverty was eliminated on Earth, a long time ago. And a lot of other things disappeared with it - hopelessness, despair, cruelty...​

SAMUEL CLEMENS: Young lady, I come from a time when men achieve power and wealth by standing on the backs of the poor, where prejudice and intolerance are commonplace and power is an end unto itself. And you're telling me that isn't how it is anymore?​

TROI: That's right.​

I would also note that in every depiction of human bigotry still present in the 23rd and 24th centuries towards aliens (e.g., Kirk's hatred of the Klingons, O'Brien's prejudice against the Cardassians, Sisko's feelings about the Ferengi, etc.), it arguably speaks to how "evolved" humanity is that in each case the characters are able to work through their issues and move beyond it. Even the bigotry of Stiles towards Spock in "Balance of Terror," at the end of that episode, the character begins to realize that he was wrong.

All I'm saying is that Utopia is a bore. Kirk and the others LEAVE earth to go explore space because that's where the challenge is.

That's where Kirk and people who join Starfleet find their challenge, but the entire point of Earth being free from economic and social pressures is that people are free to find their own challenges wherever they want. A writer like Jake is free to explore his art.

If there is NO CRIME why is there a penal colony in New Zealand?

Because there's still crime, it just doesn't happen on Earth. Tom Paris was caught doing bad shit way the hell out in the Badlands, but was serving his sentence in New Zealand.

If there is no money (means of exchange) why is Sisko's dad running a restaurant for charity? Why is Picard making wine?

Because they like doing it and find it fulfilling. There are chefs that like cooking, find pleasure in perfecting their cooking, and get enjoyment from people eating it.

Now in this fictional universe you can only achieve some kind of success only if you are a brilliant scientist or artist.

Per Picard's quote in First Contact, the acquisition of wealth and social status are no longer the driving force of humanity. How people define "success" on Earth fundamentally changes in the next 200-300 years. And the humans who want to earn profit like a Ferengi can do that, but the people of Earth have chosen a new, different way.

 

[fireproof78]

In short people are free to just be, whatever that looks like for them.

 

[SJGardner]

As for the "no crime on Earth" matter, I've always taken it as crime no longer existing as a systemic phenomenon. The vast majority of crimes that would arise from the various dysfunctions of our current system (including wrongful imprisonment from miscarriages of justice or breaking unjust laws as well) would no longer exist as everyday parts of our lives, but the occasional individual criminal acts would still happen here and there. My headcanon about the New Zealand Penal Colony is that it's the last correctional institution remaining on Earth, simply because they have no need for more, and with transporters and impulse shuttles being ubiquitous, sending inmates to the other side of the planet would be trivial.

 

[Citiprime]

It should also be pointed out that Nog and Rom in Deep Space Nine are the counter example to the idea that Utopian idealism is stagnating, and a society with competition and challenge, where the drive for "success" would be better.

Nog makes the argument perfectly that both he and his father within Ferengi society are trapped by expectations for "success." That if only given the opportunity, with the need for profit removed, his father could be the chief engineer of a starship, instead of a waiter at a bar trying to somehow, some way, move up.

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[C.E. Evans]

For some reason, a Federation citizen stealing a shuttlecraft from a starship's hangar bay isn't considered stealing.

Yeah, right.
These "evolved" Hew-mons oughta be ashamed of themselves...

 

[Ragitsu]

From what I've seen, there's a greater emphasis on rehabilitation over retribution; consequently, not only are there far fewer criminals, but the rate of recidivism is probably extremely low.

 

[Ragitsu]

Hey guys, you can't better yourself unless you or someone else is starving. Remember this.

 

[matthunter]

The Federation, like America back in the day, likes to style itself as the "Shining City on the Hill" and "Home of the Free and Land of the Brave", but like America those are both still ideals it is either 1) struggling towards, but occasionally backsliding from or 2) only true for a subset of the population.

I'd take an imperfect Federation over current America in a heartbeat, but you still need to fight to keep it on track when it falters. Fortunately, in Trek, the heroes always win.

 

[Ragitsu]

I'd take an imperfect Federation over current America in a heartbeat.

Better to scrub plasma conduits than to reign in Park Avenue.

 

[fireproof78]

It should also be pointed out that Nog and Rom in Deep Space Nine are the counter example to the idea that Utopian idealism is stagnating, and a society with competition and challenge, where the drive for "success" would be better.

Idealism does not necessarily mean stagnation; only that it can lead to it. One of the biggest pushbacks I have against TNG is not the ideal, but that they consider themselves the pinnacle, and what others ought to aspire to be like, rather than continuing to grow and develop. It's funny that DS9 took the enemies from TNG (the Ferengi, the Cardassians) and showed that under the right circumstances they could grow, and strive to become better. Nog does this, Rom does this and even Quark shows that he is tired of the stereotypical Ferengi expectations of success and strives to (occasionally) become more than he is.

Utopian idealism is fine if one considers that a journey to move towards, rather than a location to rest upon the heights and stare down at the lesser beings below.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Many experiments have been done with mouse Utopias. Mice are placed in a perfect environment and let go. At first they eat and breed like mad. Then, population explosion and boredom set in. What follows is boredom, asexuality and eventually the death of every member of the population.

In the experiment, the mice didn’t get bored or lose interest in breeding. I think you need to read up on that one again.

The problem in the experiment was that the infant mortality rate was vastly reduced, meaning the population could grow, resulting in more ‘alpha’ mice and more competition for females and territory and a general sense of confusion as the mice found that they couldn’t or needn’t do the things they were ‘hardwired’ to do.

It’s not like the mice sat around bored because they had nothing to do and then died. But you are right that having everything handed to them changed their natural behaviour in unexpected ways, resulting in the complete death of that particular group of (around 2000) mice.

It’s a very interesting thread though. Makes me think of Iain M. Banks and his Culture series of books which often explore very similar themes.

 

[Shawnster]

You can have ambition without greed. Greed is a twisted distortion of extreme ambition.

Ambition, the quest for knowledge, the expanding and pushing the boundaries of art, science, technology, etc... are compatible with idyllic conditions and surroundings.

Bettering oneself does not need to come from standing on the backs of others.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Bettering oneself does not need to come from standing on the backs of others.

But it sure makes the view easier!
(rim shot)

Okay, okay, I'm sorry! I'll go stand in the corner now for my punishment...

 

[Darth Thanos]

Earth just sounds like a dopey bore to me. No wonder the series takes place on a Starship and not planetside.

There's an episode of Lower Decks where the Cerritos is forced to stop flying for a time, and the crew has to stay on Earth for the time being until shenanigans get solved. The episode has barely started and Beckett Mariner is already climbing the walls in frustration.

Admiral Freeman: I just meant Earth. It's rare that you get back here.
Mariner: Ugh, the longer I'm off a ship, the more useless I feel. Like that. Like that big, dumb red thing.
Admiral Freeman: Beckett, you know that's the Golden Gate Bridge.
Mariner: Nobody drives anymore! Why do you need a bridge? This planet's wack!

 

[Arpy]

^ yeah! Any planet with anything old on it is wack. They should have cleared out the Acropolis and made it a giant shuttle pad. Which you'd have to pay a Ferengi half your life savings to use because drama. That's the only way Earth doesn't completely suck. I mean, gleaming capital world of a multi-trillion being interstellar powerhouse, please. BORING. Where's the racism and abortion debate?

 

[FredH]

For some reason, a Federation citizen stealing a shuttlecraft from a starship's hangar bay isn't considered stealing.

Yeah, right.
These "evolved" Hew-mons oughta be ashamed of themselves...

It’s an extended loan — and anyway they can just replicate another. The resource base is such that it can absorb this sort of thing, as long as everybody doesn’t start doing it (and if everybody does, the social structure falls apart, so usually it is still treated as a crime unless the local authority decides to blow it off.)

 

[C.E. Evans]

It’s an extended loan — and anyway they can just replicate another. The resource base is such that it can absorb this sort of thing, as long as everybody doesn’t start doing it (and if everybody does, the social structure falls apart, so usually it is still treated as a crime unless the local authority decides to blow it off.)

Stealing is stealing. It depends on how the authorities want to meter out justice--either brush it off as if it never happened, a slap on the hand, or completely throwing the book.

 

[Arpy]

Stealing is stealing. It depends on how the authorities want to meter out justice--either brush it off as if it never happened, a slap on the hand, or completely throwing the book.

Cops see you speeding and turning without signaling without starting a record for you. Lone VOY popped out shuttles like they were tic tacs. Just because they don’t throw the book at you doesn’t mean there’s a conspiracy afoot or that there aren’t consequences.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Cops see you speeding and turning without signaling without starting a record for you.

I wish. I'm black. I used to be pulled over and questioned at least once a month for simply driving an old car with a dent or two. I knew not to even think about doing more than 5 m.p.h. above any posted speed limit, even if others were going much faster...

Lone VOY popped out shuttles like they were tic tacs. Just because they don’t throw the book at you doesn’t mean there’s a conspiracy afoot or that there aren’t consequences.

It's just that some people are more subject to consequences than others.

 

[fireproof78]

Cops see you speeding and turning without signaling without starting a record for you. Lone VOY popped out shuttles like they were tic tacs. Just because they don’t throw the book at you doesn’t mean there’s a conspiracy afoot or that there aren’t consequences.

Ha. I was driving and someone passes me and cop flagged me at 10 over.