Jack Crusher. 2nd Officer of the Enterprise-G

[TerryTrek]

Some were wondering why they wanted Jack in the command chairs. Chris Monfette revealed on Popcast that they created that 'Captain's personal counsel' position as a smokescreen so they could plan a suitable position for him in Legacy. Likely in command.

Matalas may have actually already revealed Jack's future position;

Matalas: Imagine a story in which Seven has to make a call that could cost Raffi her life on a planet below… but it’s a call that would save the lives of countless others. Does Seven make the call? Does she step down and go try to save Raffi and transfer command to Jack in the meantime? The whole episode becomes a countdown. I kinda want to write that one right now

https://www.reddit.com/r/television.../?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Jack is 2nd Officer of the Enterprise-G in Legacy? If it happens.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Assuming the Enterprise-G has a Marine detachment, I think that would be a perfect posting for Jack. He certainly has the combat skills for it.

Although Beverly probably wouldn't be too thrilled.

 

[TerryTrek]

Strategic Operations Officer, like Worf on DS9.

There was some talk with the producer or writer on one of the Popcast chats about Jack still having his Borg Matrix abilities. Downloading combat skills and whatnot.

Technically Data and Seven had similar abilities.

 

[fireproof78]

Why can't he be a civilian consultant?

Why be in Starfleet?

And now as second officer, so outranking several career officers with no time in service?

Assuming the Enterprise-G has a Marine detachment, I think that would be a perfect posting for Jack. He certainly has the combat skills for it.

That would mean making Marines a thing, and that ain't happening.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That would mean making Marines a thing, and that ain't happening.

I admit it's unlikely. But Starfleet has had Marines before (Colonel West in ST VI, and the guys in dark blue turtlenecks in ST V). So it's not without precedent.

Although I can also see Jack joining Dr. Ohk's medical team. He's as good a doctor as he is a fighter. And Beverly would probably prefer that anyway.

 

[fireproof78]

I admit it's unlikely. But Starfleet has had Marines before (Colonel West in ST VI, and the guys in dark blue turtlenecks in ST V). So it's not without precedent.

Since they were not called Marines as such in those films it doesn't make it more likely. Intent is fine and all but it runs counter to what's actually presented on screen.

 

[C.E. Evans]

And now as second officer, so outranking several career officers with no time in service?

No less crazy as Kirk going from cadet to acting first officer and then captain of the Enterprise in just a few days in the Kelvin Timeline.

But Starfleet has demonstrated time and time again that it promotes who they want to promote into certain posts, especially if that person has a special skill set. Someone leap-frogging over more experienced officers is not unheard of.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

As for the OP, I don't think Seven would have a problem with sending Raffi into danger but I don't see Jack making it all the way to second officer this quickly. Unless there's another time jump.

And honestly Jack doesn't strike me as somebody who wants to be in command.

Edit: It just hit me...we never found out who that third chair was originally for, did we? Did the Titan have an actual ship's counselor? I definitely don't see Jack doing that either.

 

[fireproof78]

No less crazy as Kirk going from cadet to acting first officer and then captain of the Enterprise in just a few days in the Kelvin Timeline.

He was a lieutenant.

But Starfleet has demonstrated time and time again that it promotes who they want to promote into certain posts, especially if that person has a special skill set. Someone leap-frogging over more experienced officers is not unheard of.

It's not, and I knew that the Kelvin Kirk would be used as an example. But, Kelvin Kirk had received Academy training, was a lieutenant by rank, placed in to the chain of command by a senior officer, and able to take command. And even so, it still smacked of nepotism, that even was acknowledged next film.

Jack is even more nepotism than that situation!

And honestly Jack doesn't strike me as somebody who wants to be in command.

Nope. He seems the type to duck responsibility.

 

[TerryTrek]

And honestly Jack doesn't strike me as somebody who wants to be in command.

He jumped right into the Captain's chair in the finale... and did earlier to 'try it out'

I found that obvious telegraphing that Matalas eventually wants Jack in command. The Reddit comments about Jack being 2nd weren't that surprising.

A time jump is inevitable if this show happens. With the upcoming strikes, no unfilmed Trek shows will happen anytime soon.

 

[C.E. Evans]

He was a lieutenant.

But still in training at the Academy. Like Uhura, he was still referred to as a cadet regardless of being a lieutenant, so that's a case of how Starfleet is different from today's Navy.

It's not, and I knew that the Kelvin Kirk would be used as an example. But, Kelvin Kirk had received Academy training, was a lieutenant by rank, placed in to the chain of command by a senior officer, and able to take command.

And Jack has had real practical experience on the final frontier since he was a kid, has dealt with numerous alien civilizations, found ways to get out of tight jams, and knows his way around a starship. He also helped defeat the Borg. He's demonstrated his ability to take command, albeit on his own terms, but he likely learned how to do it the Starfleet way in the year between the defeat of the Borg and the launch of the Enterprise-G.

And even so, it still smacked of nepotism, that even was acknowledged next film.

Jack is even more nepotism than that situation!

Having famous parents might have gotten him in the door, but he had to prove himself capable to stay inside. If he hadn't been able to cut it, he likely would have been washed out regardless of his parentage.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

He jumped right into the Captain's chair in the finale... and did earlier to 'try it out'

I always thought that he was just messing around and acting playful.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Since they were not called Marines as such in those films it doesn't make it more likely. Intent is fine and all but it runs counter to what's actually presented on screen.

Indeed.

The closest we ever got to the "Starfleet Marines" being named on screen was a faked/early draft of "Operation Retrieve" chart that mentioned the "Starfleet Tactical Marine Corps", which sounds more DEVGRU, CIA Special Activities Division or the Royal Marines Commandos than the top-level combined arms force similar to the US Marine Corps that the Starfleet Marine Corps are typically assumed to be.

Personally, both should have been wearing dark green undershirts and be part of the Starfleet Security Special Forces unit under the Starfleet Inspector General that appeared on Bob Fletcher organisational chart.

 

[fireproof78]

But still in training at the Academy. Like Uhura, he was still referred to as a cadet regardless of being a lieutenant, so that's a case of how Starfleet is different from today's Navy.

Still trained and eligible to move in to the chain of command. What's Jack's Starfleet training?

And Jack has had real practical experience on the final frontier since he was a kid, has dealt with numerous alien civilizations, found ways to get out of tight jams, and knows his way around a starship. He also helped defeat the Borg. He's demonstrated his ability to take command, albeit on his own terms, but he likely learned how to do it the Starfleet way in the year between the defeat of the Borg and the launch of the Enterprise-G.

I would not trust him to operate a starship under duress. Taking command on his own terms does not make him a Starfleet officer.

Having famous parents might have gotten him in the door, but he had to prove himself capable to stay inside. If he hadn't been able to cut it, he likely would have been washed out regardless of his parentage.

Debatable.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Still trained and eligible to move in to the chain of command. What's Jack's Starfleet training?

The real world. He can teach Starfleet cadets a thing or two.

I would not trust him to operate a starship under duress. Taking command on his own terms does not make him a Starfleet officer.

But he does make him able to take command nonetheless.

Debatable.

Actually it's not. If he couldn't make it in Starfleet, he couldn't make it in Starfleet.[/QUOTE]

 

[fireproof78]

The real world. He can teach Starfleet cadets a thing or two.

He can?

But he does make him able to take command nonetheless.

True. Starfleet is full of unqualified individuals.

Actually it's not. If he couldn't make it in Starfleet, he couldn't make it in Starfleet.

Nepotism is a powerful force. He might make it, but as second in command of the Enterprise? For my money, no.

 

[C.E. Evans]

He can?

Yup.

True. Starfleet is full of unqualified individuals.

And some of them would go on to become captains and admirals.

Nepotism is a powerful force. He might make it, but as second in command of the Enterprise? For my money, no.

Don't be surprised if he actually earns that post in the end.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

2nd Officer while being an Ensign?

isn't that a bit too fast?

We don't need to copy the JJ-verse on ridiculously quick promotion.

We understand that Jack is a special case, he already has a life-time of talent.

But shouldn't he have to at least rank up at the end of a season to show his growth?

Eventually he can gain the requisite experience to catch up to where he should be for the 2nd in command.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Indeed.

The closest we ever got to the "Starfleet Marines" being named on screen was a faked/early draft of "Operation Retrieve" chart that mentioned the "Starfleet Tactical Marine Corps", which sounds more DEVGRU, CIA Special Activities Division or the Royal Marines Commandos than the top-level combined arms force similar to the US Marine Corps that the Starfleet Marine Corps are typically assumed to be.

Personally, both should have been wearing dark green undershirts and be part of the Starfleet Security Special Forces unit under the Starfleet Inspector General that appeared on Bob Fletcher organisational chart.

I fully admit I'm stretching the limits of reaching, with my constant mentioning of Starfleet Marines. I do get that.

I just like the concept, that's all. I want to believe that Starfleet does indeed have marines.I know they are not, strictly speaking, canon, but I don't care.

(in my headcanon, the division color of Starfleet Marines is black in TOS/SNW and light gray in PIC and its ilk.)

and yes, I think that's a posting Jack would do well at. He's clearly got the fighting skills for it.

But second officer? No. I'm not seeing that I just don't see Jack as command material. Not yet anyway.

 

[fireproof78]

Yup.

I'll take your word for it that somehow Jack Crusher is uniquely qualified to train officers.

And some of them would go on to become captains and admirals.

Which is absurdist on it's face.

Don't be surprised if he actually earns that post in the end.

He hasn't done anything to earn it at all so yes I will be incredibly surprised if the man bothers to actually demonstrate that he is worthwhile in Starfleet at all.

2nd Officer while being an Ensign?

isn't that a bit too fast?

Yes, yes it is.

We understand that Jack is a special case, he already has a life-time of talent.

So what? Not all talent is meant for Stafleet. This positing pretty much proves that Starfleet is the be all, end all of the Federation life and that anyone who doesn't join Starfleet is wasting their life. Jack's experiences are great but now that he is in Starfleet he can teach everyone all the things...

I don't get it.