What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[FormerLurker]

The Cage was pushing the envelope of contemporary science fiction, The Menagerie was a poorly contrived excuse to deliver two network episodes from it.

Thank you for saying contrived and not conceived. It was actually a brilliant way to save money and time while making consistent product so the network didn't have to preempt anything. The writing was okay, but it was obvious that some sets were redresses.

 

[tomalak301]

It's only the past few weeks Ive realised that there's a huge element of the fandom that I just don't relate to at all. Which is fine. I've enjoyed PIC S3 while at the same time finding the overall writing a bit rubbish (although still a masterpiece compared to S2). Yet so many fans are in utter HEAVEN and are genuinely in rapture over all the continuity, cameos and callbacks. Personally, I'm concerned that this is all Trek has to offer now; nostalgia over substance.

I've been feeling something similar, but I don't think it started with Picard. I remember even with Enterprise people were craving for nostalgia, which was why Season 4 was much better recieved than Season 3 (Over the years, Season 3 has become my favorite season of Enterprise). I don't mind some fan service, but I think once the honeymoon period has worn off, people might see Season 3 of Picard as too much fan service, and the writing for the overall plot kinda suffered because of it. I think I like Season 1 more than Season 3, mainly because it was trying to show Picard at a much later stage of his life and how secluded he had become.

 

[drt]

I think I like Season 1 more than Season 3, mainly because it was trying to show Picard at a much later stage of his life and how secluded he had become.

I think it's my favorite as well, it's an interesting character study.

I actually rewatched Season 2 recently, it was actually better than I thought I remembered it - I'm not sure if that was one of those "appreciated it better on the rewatch" things, or if the internet had simply gaslit me into thinking it was terrible.

 

[dmac]

Thank you for saying contrived and not conceived. It was actually a brilliant way to save money and time while making consistent product so the network didn't have to preempt anything. The writing was okay, but it was obvious that some sets were redresses.

Contrived because if most of the stories are true the network overruled the creators of trek at nearly every turn. I can see that because networks were creating Gomer pyle, Adams Family my favorite Martian and Star Trek didn't fit the lowbrow Sitcom model.

 

[donners22]

It's only the past few weeks Ive realised that there's a huge element of the fandom that I just don't relate to at all. Which is fine. I've enjoyed PIC S3 while at the same time finding the overall writing a bit rubbish (although still a masterpiece compared to S2). Yet so many fans are in utter HEAVEN and are genuinely in rapture over all the continuity, cameos and callbacks. Personally, I'm concerned that this is all Trek has to offer now; nostalgia over substance. Doctor Who went that way in the 1980's and was dead for two decades afterward--in catering to the fans (most of whom seemed to hate it anyway), they completely forgot to try to appeal to the mainstreamers too, and to attempt to entice new fans. I think that's always a danger. I want Trek to look forward, to pioneer, and not trade good coherent stories with some kind of philosophical undertone for cheap fanwankery. I sense that's what we're likely to be in for from now on though.

I personally think the time might be coming for a hard reboot; something wherein all the old rules are thrown out. Find some talented writers who can do something wild, fresh, compelling and free. Maybe it would work and maybe it wouldn't, but I like it when Star Trek takes risks rather than plays it safe.

I suppose it's not surprising, given TNG was a fundamentally safe show. Largely static characters with few flaws or conflicts, problems readily overcome by the technobabble of the week and a mostly clean slate every episode. It's comfort blanket television, and the nostalgia of S3 is serving a similar comforting purpose.

That would all be fine if it was being treated as such, but the loud claims that it's a "masterpiece" and that it should serve as the template for Trek going forward are concerning. If that's the way it goes, I suspect people will turn on it fast. This season had most of the features which people have been criticising the other modern series for; they just overlooked them for the sake of the reunion. I can't see that happening with Legacy, or a reunion for a less-beloved cast.

 

[Turtletrekker]

No love for Menagerie Pike

Poor Sean Kenney tried his best

Beep.

 

[Citiprime]

All three. Pike has been my favorite since first watching the Cage some 30 years ago.

I've always liked the interpretation that sees Pike from "The Cage" as a precursor-version of Sisko.

When we first meet them, they're both disillusioned about Starfleet. Both are haunted by the losses they've suffered. And both are at a crossroads of trying to figure out whether what they're doing is worth it.

And, in the end, both are able to recapture the meaning in their position's of command when they teach a completely alien culture about what it means to be human.

 

[fireproof78]

I've always liked the interpretation that sees Pike from "The Cage" as a precursor-version of Sisko.

When we first meet them, they're both disillusioned about Starfleet. Both are haunted by the losses they've suffered. And both are at a crossroads of trying to figure out whether what they're doing is worth it.

And, in the end, both are able to recapture the meaning in their position's of command when they teach a completely alien culture about what it means to be human.

Pretty classic tale.

 

[Farscape One]

I've always liked the interpretation that sees Pike from "The Cage" as a precursor-version of Sisko.

When we first meet them, they're both disillusioned about Starfleet. Both are haunted by the losses they've suffered. And both are at a crossroads of trying to figure out whether what they're doing is worth it.

And, in the end, both are able to recapture the meaning in their position's of command when they teach a completely alien culture about what it means to be human.

I never heard that interpretation, but it certainly fits.

I like that.

 

[Lleo Oneiro]

I'll start.

I don't think The Wrath of Khan is the best Star Trek movie or even as good a movie as my fellow fans think it is. I hear all kinds of reasons as to why it is considered the best, but, the most common one I hear is that because it isn't The Motion Picture -- which is just absurd. As if the whole reason Wrath of Khan should be considered the best is because it's better than the movie before it, which assumes that I share the same general sentiments about the first movie as everyone else -- which I don't.

I like the Wrath of Khan just fine. It's a perfectly good Star Trek movie, but I think the franchise has done much better since it came out. I don't like that it's put on this pedestal where every new Star Trek film has to be compared with it.

So, this is like/dislike controversy? Not religious, political, scientific?

 

[Lleo Oneiro]

Interesting how SNW Pike looks like Kirk, and Kirk looks like TOS Pike! How are they going to pull this off?!

 

[Lleo Oneiro]

I got a few

1 I don't think LaForge crossed the line in Galaxy's Child. I think he just made a human mistake of forming preconceptions.

2 I don't hate Harry Kim at all and think he and Paris actually make for a good buddy duo.

3 Neelix is a good character as well.

4 Quark is 4th best character in all of Trek behind Kirk/Spock and McCoy.

5 Martock should have been LGBTQ. People talk about Garak but I kind of like they didn't do it with Garak because the more secrets you have with him the better. Martock on the other hand would have been a great choice. A chance to explore that from someone in a warrior culture and also because Worf wasn't always the most woke of characters when it comes to this issue. To see a adopted brother be this would have made for fine character drama.

Jason

Neelix has issues not appropriate to discuss in open forum.

 

[Lleo Oneiro]

I think I agree with you.

Overall I tend to find the whole 'avoiding dealing a mortal enemy a decisive blow' because 'then we'll be the same as them/just as bad as them' pretty tiresome when the stakes are so high to be honest.

Ought to have crippled them to a level of irrelevance.

 

[Lleo Oneiro]

Spoiler

Who noticed that the end of Picard showed the murder of 300,000ish Starfleet & the Enterprise crew's response was a party?

How are the survivors of Jack's attack going to cope with being the instruments of death, and Jack smiling his way into Enterprise G? Promising? there's no way it could happen again?

 

[Lleo Oneiro]

Q was underused in Picard Season 2.

 

[Jayson1]

Neelix is just fine. Not as good as Quark and I think he was suppose to be the more friendly version of Quark. If we are talking about him dating Kes then it doesn't matter about her age because she isn't human and the whole maturity thing works differently to us then them as one would suspect for a species that only lives 9 to 10 years.

As for the jealousy stuff then yes that isn't a good look but it's also interesting because of that. Many people get jealous and act foolish. People can relate to that. I feel they played it just right. They didn't drag it on for years and resolved it before it got boring.

I do wish they had broken him and Kes up in a better way. They did in the episode were the alien King guy took control of her body and it was confusing as to why they did it that way. They did have a nice scene reflecting on their relationship in the ep when she left the show and evolved though that was kind of ruined a little because of "Fury."

 

[Lleo Oneiro]

People used to say Spock was the devil because of the pointy ears. Klingons, said to be originally styled as Russians, are from Kronos. Chronos is Saturn. Time. The real devil.

 

[Lleo Oneiro]

Neelix is just fine. Not as good as Quark and I think he was suppose to be the more friendly version of Quark. If we are talking about him dating Kes then it doesn't matter about her age because she isn't human and the whole maturity thing works differently to us then them as one would suspect for a species that only lives 9 to 10 years.

As for the jealousy stuff then yes that isn't a good look but it's also interesting because of that. Many people get jealous and act foolish. People can relate to that. I feel they played it just right. They didn't drag it on for years and resolved it before it got boring.

I do wish they had broken him and Kes up in a better way. They did in the episode were the alien King guy took control of her body and it was confusing as to why they did it that way. They did have a nice scene reflecting on their relationship in the ep when she left the show and evolved though that was kind of ruined a little because of "Fury."

There are dark occult connotations to how Kes separated. Why her "species" only live to 8 or 9. Her appearance. Neelix being a bad chef. Neelix being fully emotional and not too smart.

 

[at Quark's]

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[1001001]

Spoiler

Who noticed that the end of Picard showed the murder of 300,000ish Starfleet & the Enterprise crew's response was a party?

How are the survivors of Jack's attack going to cope with being the instruments of death, and Jack smiling his way into Enterprise G? Promising? there's no way it could happen again?

Welcome aboard.

Let's review a couple of things. First, you cannot post any spoilers in open forum for 6 months after air date. That applies to all series. There is a dedicated Picard Forum where you can discuss the show all you like.

Second, please use the multi-quote function from now on.

Q was underused in Picard Season 2.

^ Like that.

Posting 4-5 times in a row is considered spamming.

The rules for posting here are pinned at the top of this forum. Please take a little time to review.

Thanks!