I posted this in the Vox thread but since we're talking about issues with the season here...how long ago did Odo tell Worf about changelings having a plan against Starfleet? Presumably it was when Odo found out about it which must have been a while ago since Changelings have had time to infiltrate Starfleet, connect the fleet, and work with the Borg. Was anything done with this info? It seems like all Worf did is try to find out what was stolen from Daystrom. Did Odo know the changelings were different? Seems like something the link would know and Odo would pass on. Even if not, it seems like more people should have known the changelings were planning something (and could potentially infiltrate Starfleet) since Odo..y'know..warned someone from Starfleet about it.
Spoilers Please explain the baddie plan
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
And as much as people want to just blame Goldsman for season 2's problems a lot of season 3 writers worked on season 2 and the big season story ideas (except for the Picard trauma) were pitched by Matalas. Season 2 also held the mystery of Picard's trauma too long just like season 3 held back the Jack mystery box too long. Actually I think in both seasons the big answers were mainly revealed in episode 9.
I think all Odo must have known were that a group of angry changelings walked out on him. These were obviously NOT the original S31 experimental changelings. Apparently Vadic and the other S31 changelings were sitting around for 2 decades then the group Odo mentioned ran into Vadic and Vadic gave them her powers. So Odo wouldn't know the new changelings had powers. All he knows is that some changelings walked out on him and swore revenge against the Fed.
Someone in another thread or website postulated that the information and the conspiracy couldn't have happened any earlier than 2399 and for reasons doing with Starfleet and the Romulan plot of Season 1. The Great Link doesn't perceive time the way we do so for the terrorist faction that split perhaps 23 years or so was a fair amount of time for them to seethe in anger over losing the Dominion War and seeking ways to plot revenge.
Thought about it..but considering how far along the changeling plot is those changelings couldn't have left the link that recently. So Odo warned Starfleet/Worf..and what happened with that intel? I guess they just assumed their usual detection methods would work?
I mean they infiltrated Starfleet, started working with the Borg somehow, modified ships to be connected to each other, planned frontier day to involve the entire fleet, made sure most personnel used transporters. It. couldn't have been very recent. So did Odo wait months or a year to tell Worf?
I honestly have no problem at all with it being a changeling faction plot. I just thought bringing the Borg into it to be just unnecessary and kind of silly. Vadic was a great character but they spaced her before the last two episodes. Maybe Plummer didn't want to be on set that long.
I hadn't really noticed until now, but.. these are almost all bottle episodes. I haven't seen sky in this series in awhile.
I hadn't really noticed until now, but.. these are almost all bottle episodes. I haven't seen sky in this series in awhile.
I really don't think Vadic was that great. She spent the season just trying to get Jack for reasons unknown while working for someone unknown. I don't even think it makes sense that a whole group of changelings couldn't retrieve Jack before Beverly's distress call to Picard. Again, the fleet and frontier day plans had to have been in place for a while and their entire plan counted on delivering Jack to the borg. Did they not really try? Did a changeling dressed as a Starfleet officer or a fenris ranger just say "come with us jack" All they had to do was kill and replace Beverly or drug him LOL. Beverly said they were working on worlds helping people so it's not like they were just on their ship only the entire time.
oh Vadic is a screw up. She had the biggest baddest ship in the universe, nearly unkillable shapeshifting superdooper commandos embedded all over the galaxy in the midst of the enemy, and she still couldn't get the job done. But I actually liked that. We don't usually get to see a villain that incompetent.
Worst. Founder. Ever.
But I don't see her as being a screw up (until we see her maybe) but just being poorly written. Because also in episode 2, why is she giving the Titan so much time and playing with them. Again, their entire revenge plan of hurting starfleet depends on Jack. They should want to get him ASAP and get him to the Borg. And then it doesn't just make her incompetent for not getting him prior to Beverly's call to PIcard but the rest of the changelings as well.
Beverly: "We were on a supply run to Sarnia Prime and Jack was jumped by Fenris Rangers. Then Klingons boarded us a day later. They were trying to take him. Then went to Starfleet, and still they came for him."
So at least 2-3 attempts where changelings actually physically had Jack and they were unable to get him? What?
This is why the Borg Queen got mad and made Vadic use "Cut-off-your-hand-o-vision" instead of just sending her another burner phone.
The changelings didn't realize all they had to do was turn into a hot Orion woman, give Jack a few meaningful glances, and he'd gladly go off to get captured and assimilated.
Or turn into Beverly and take Jack to the borg while he was sleeping. Or drug him. Or transport him to their ship when he's on a planet, or.....
According to Sean Tretta, they considered having the Cube from 309 emerge from the transwarp conduit established in 210 and blow up the Jurati-Borg ship, but pulled back because it would undermine that season...
And in an interview Terry said that transwarp conduit was a distraction by the regular Borg. (Since he said it in an interview I'm assuming that won't be directly stated in the season finale?). Not sure how that makes sense or why a distraction was needed since it didn't seem to impact where the fleet was on frontier day.
so slightly more subtly undermined it instead of dropped a flaming septic tank on it.
It's not a distraction for the Fed. It's a distraction for Jurati's group, who probably are the only ones who can realistically cure Jack.
And smoking more cigars than Columbo at George Burns' birthday get-together.
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