Indeed!
Is Starfleet Military?
- Thread starter Prometheus59650
- Start date
No. TOS Klingons and Romulans were militaristic. Starfleet has never been shown to be so.
mil·i·ta·ris·tic
- advocating or pursuing an aggressive military policy; hawkish.
I was considering the view that, if Starfleet isn't really a military, then another organization should take over military duties.
Read the content just below the image from the Dominion War.
I would expect that an attempt to create a new service would be diluted, with combat effectiveness being constrained.
Most likely the Federation would end up with something akin to the United States Coast Guard.
Read the content just below the image from the Dominion War.
I would expect that an attempt to create a new service would be diluted, with combat effectiveness being constrained.
Most likely the Federation would end up with something akin to the United States Coast Guard.
Except that "something like the US Coast Guard" (just with a larger range of ships) is basically what they already have in Starfleet as I've pointed out several times on this and previous threads on the topic as they are about as "demilitarized" and multi-roled as a naval force can be without ceasing to be a military force entirely (they're an armed service with legal authority to act as a military force but that's about it).
Something like Coast Guard, plus an exploratory component. The exploratory component is somewhat comparable to the Corps of Discovery (Lewis and Clark expedition) mentioned by Airmandan.
I can imagine some member world maintaining their own fleets of warships. The Loknar class hinted at this.
I can imagine some member world maintaining their own fleets of warships. The Loknar class hinted at this.
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A military justice system has nothing to do with handiness or portability. There's no reason a military justice system is more mobile than a civilian one.
With, again, the major exception that the USCG cannot fight a war on its own as Starfleet can.
Just like the British and US navies in the 1800-and-peace period.
The US Coast Guard is one of the six branches of the US Military. There is nothing wrong with Starfleet being a military.
Wesley was an adult by the time he enlisted in Starfleet.
And it was his choice to do so.
Other than all the times they are, I guess.
Memory Alpha says Wesley was born in 2348. Given that the first season is in 2364, that would mean he was 17-18 at the time he meets the Traveler and was made Acting Ensign.
He certainly didn't look that age to me, more like 14-15-ish. But perhaps puberty strikes a bit later in the future?
He certainly didn't look that age to me, more like 14-15-ish. But perhaps puberty strikes a bit later in the future?
Wheaton was indeed around 14-15 when he filmed the first season AFAICT.
Yes, because all the "big ships" and other material that's mostly designed for war-fighting has been assigned to the Navy instead.
Several second-tier nations have their "coastal patrol" and "naval warfare" branches combined into a single organisation. The naval elements of the Australian Defence Force spring to mind and even the modern Royal Navy isn't that different (and most of the differences are fairly recent).
I could see Starfleet (particularly Earth Starfleet and early Federation Starfleet) facing situations similar to those faced by the crew in this series:
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Your math's a bit off. Wesley is stated in dialogue to be 15 in TNG's first season. Which is possible, though it'd mean his birthday is late in 2348.
You're right. Stupid arithmetic error. But that would mean he's not of age serving as an Acting Ensign in some conflict situations (assuming the line is still drawn at 17 or 18).
Correct me if I am wrong, but in certain circumstances you can make up a military court in extremis so long as you have enough officers of suitable rank.
And unless there are judges on the enterprise, and solicitors, two doors down from mots barber shop, really the only judicial authority are the bridge officers.
We also see Picard and Riker act as counsel in Measure of a Man precisely because of that portability, even after Data has attempted to resign his commission. (which he was not allowed to do)
That is the portability I refer to, and which makes sense on deep space exploration missions (at least, until things got more parochial) even ones including civilians — as the Enterprise D does have.
Starfleet is the officially sanctioned armed force of a sovereign governing body known for imperialistic tendencies.
It's a military. Hard stop. Why has his debate continued for so fucking long?
It's a military. Hard stop. Why has his debate continued for so fucking long?
Which is why I'm saying the US Coast Guard is not a good comparison for Starfleet.
According to TOS, there need to be at least three officers the rank of captain or above. So you'd have to have three captains on one ship, be in a place where a court could be assembled, or travel to one. In "Court Martial" there was a delay as there weren't enough members at first; they had to wait for them to get there.
That was a hearing, not a court, but a JAG officer ran the hearing. They were already at a Starbase with a JAG office; if not they would have presumably had to travel to one.
The evidence doesn't point to it being especially portable. If Starfleet personnel were under a civilian justice system, offenders could be detained and transported to a court with jurisdiction, it would work out just the same.
All of which goes somewhat against the 18th Century model, often cited, and rejected at great length in Encounter at Farpoint, where the Captains Rule was law.
In the Delta Quadrant with Janeway, you could be sentenced to life in prison, and back ‘home’ Officers were regularly defended, or prosecuted, or otherwise assisted, by other officers when coming under local powers, even in situations such as
Jadzias trial in DS9.
Captains are the highest power on their ships are they not? They act as de facto head of the community as it were on each ship. Particularly in a mixed SF/civvie ship such as the
Enterprise D, which was — initially at least — expected to operate away from the framework of the Federation. Frontier justice, but more civilised than that term usually implies.
There’s an implication that Troi is the head of non-Starfleet personnel, but it’s nebulous at best. Not least as she is an officer.
In Trek, they are always on the metaphorical high seas.
They are an enclosed society designed to be able to function as one without outside resource for years at a time.
There is nothing wrong with the military, nor with military SF — I just take from what is shown and said that Star Trek, certainly post 1979, is not those things.
Fundamentally, like the money question, it asks us to accept that all the ‘hero’ characters — like Picard — are either unreliable narrators at worst, or fools at best. Both of which are regularly also shown to not be the case.
The US and British Navy may have been the original models for Trek, but later on it is NASA being looked to, and there’s a lot more ‘NASA’ Trek than ‘Navy’ Trek.
For example, entry into Starfleet is shown repeatedly to not require citizenship of the Federation, in much the same way one does not have to be from North America to work for NASA.
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