That's not how it works.
Does the current state of Star Trek say anything about what fans want?
- Thread starter Citiprime
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Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Well, I'll be polite and not say what I think you sound like.
Wouldn't have been the first or the last time that a character commented on how a ship looks.
Not the same thing.
Lampshading tends to suck.
Not always. Plus it was my first reaction to seeing it and I'm not even a Starfleet historian, so it would've been perfectly natural for someone in universe to acknowledge that it's got a retro style.
Usually quite obvious and painful.
I'm fine with throwback designs, if there's a logical reason for them. For example, baseball and football teams sometimes wear throwback uniforms for fan nostalgia. But they're not meant to be worn regularly. But my rant wasn't so much a diatribe against nostalgia. Rather, that between 50+ years of fandom coming up with a logical design lineage for starships such as the FASA and SFB role playing games, to the actual TV and movie productions post-TOS whose designers like Andy Probert, Rick Sternbach, Michael Okuda etc. have lovingly done the same thing, we've gotten a pretty consistent 'universe' of the gradual advancement of tech over time. It's just that for the last couple of years, production design has become more and more inconsistent because of the obsession with making prequels to things that didn't really need prequels to begin with, the inconsistency of trying to shoehorn in a more modern approach into that same 'universe' that had nothing like that before, and designers that simply don't get it in terms of 'pseudo-historical accuracy' if you get what I mean. There's a reason nobody is making a prequel show to Adam West's Batman using today's production values. In the words of Sidney Powell and Tucker Carlson, no reasonable-thinking person would believe it. And before anyone chimes in with "But it's just artistic interpretation!"...I'm not buying that either. By that logic, Netflix's Lost in Space is also an 'artistic interpretation' of the old LiS, but the producers didn't feel the need to claim it takes place in the same universe as Irwin Allen's.
Now more specifically, my main issue with 'throwback designs' in Trek has to do with the Titan. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone who is savvy about Star Trek tech like me to question why the design of the ship looks so much like something that came from a tech era from 100 years before. If there was a logical reason for it, great. But so far the show itself has not provided one, and all the behind-the-scenes comments by the producers and showrunners haven't convinced me. So, here we are.
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I've never thought five seasons of a show was a failure. Hell some of my favourite shows are those 13 episode half seasons that didn't get renewed and I don't think of them as failures neither. Is the show not just ending because these guys have told their bit and the people involved want to move onto other things?
I think the current state of the shows just says that Paramount+ is just trying different things and trying to appeal to wide audience. I don't know if the hardcore fandom really matters as much as it think it does but really more attracting subscribers and positive word of mouth.
I think the current state of the shows just says that Paramount+ is just trying different things and trying to appeal to wide audience. I don't know if the hardcore fandom really matters as much as it think it does but really more attracting subscribers and positive word of mouth.
Your point about sports teams wearing "classic" kits for anniversaries etc is an interesting one - would be quite cool to see a 25th century TOS uniform as a dress uniform or a ceremonial one to celebrate Kirk and co or something to that effect.
Or maybe even do them for Disco (if it wasn't ending) to show the new era of exploration now that the Federation is more stable?
Oh, one more thing: while I was on the cruise, I had a habit of asking people I met if they happened to be a member of the TrekBBS. None of them were. You’d think that anyone who actually loves Star Trek that much that they’d pay shitloads of money to be on a cruise ship would be just as anal retentive about Star Trek as a TrekBBS member is…but no.
We all have different angles from which we appreciate Trek, and that's fine. And we also have different ways to indulge in our Trek cravings, which is also fine. I don't think I would be attracted to such a cruise for example, even though I'm perfectly happy to be a TrekBBS member. But yeah, we're only a tiny minority of all Trek fans.
Probably doesn't, no matter how important we like to think we are
And an even smaller portion of the viewing audience. The vast majority of subscribers simply goes "That was entertaining" and moves on. There's not furor over ship designs, or uniforms, or time lines because it all works well enough for them as a piece of entertainment.
Dude, the designers get it. The producers they work for get it too. They just make different artistic choices because they value things other than aesthetic consistency.
I'm one of those who thinks Picard season 3 is the best Trek since DS9. I actually thought the Jj films were decent too. Setting them in an alternative timeline meant that I could accept the changes. Try as I might, it's very hard to reconcile DSC and SNW with what came before. It does not fit.
DSC season 1 was OK. But then each season it seemed to try to reinvent itself and the show never felt coherent to me. Saru was by far and away the most interesting character for me.
I found Season 1 and 2 of Picard to be abysmal. Truly terrible in my opinion. Both started out reasonably well but we're so badly written.
I've loved season 3 so far though. I don't know who is responsible for the incredible turnaround, but give them the keys to the franchise so far as I'm concerned.
As usual YMMV.
DSC season 1 was OK. But then each season it seemed to try to reinvent itself and the show never felt coherent to me. Saru was by far and away the most interesting character for me.
I found Season 1 and 2 of Picard to be abysmal. Truly terrible in my opinion. Both started out reasonably well but we're so badly written.
I've loved season 3 so far though. I don't know who is responsible for the incredible turnaround, but give them the keys to the franchise so far as I'm concerned.
As usual YMMV.
It's essentially the same people who did Season 2.
It's seems to me using more legacy characters forgives a lot of sins.
Honestly, the writing on season 3 of Picard might be even worse than season 2. But it appears all you need is a TNG reunion, LCARS screens and copious fanwank and some fans are willing to declare it The Best Thing Ever.
Of course, COVID did impact the shooting schedule for Season 2, giving us episodes where different actors were paired off together for that episode, perhaps if they hadn’t had that limitation some things would have flowed a bit better. Although, I think the pacing in Season 3 is a bit flawed as well.
I think they probably could have tightened E2/3/4 into two episodes, as there was a lot of redundant farting around in the nebula. That may have freed them to split E6 into two episodes, as the stuff with Geordi and breaking into Daystrom could have used more room to breathe.
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I am enjoying seeing the gang getting back together, it feels very 'Star Trek' to me with the crew all working together to solve a problem. It's amazing how good some of the legacy actors are - especially Jonathan Frakes and I thought Marina was amazing in Nepenthe.
Michelle Hurd's character is really working partnered with Worf and the young man playing Picards son is very good too.
The designs are better, from simple things like the use of LCARS to the ships themselves. I'm hoping they can add some depth to Vadic, who is feeling a lot like the Romulan villain from Season 1, with no real motivation for being evil.
There's more humour, more action, a bit of exploration. The show feels more upbeat, less dour. And, so help me for saying it, but it links to canon. It feels like it fits with the Prime timeline. Thank Kahless himself, but Klingons look like Klingons, a Constitution class starship looks like it should (unlike in Season 1). It's no wonder that people like Rob Meyer Burnett, Mark Altman etc... have come around to the show. Hell, even the guys at RedLetter Media are liking it.
Now, if we can just lower the ridiculously high ceilings on the sets, turn up the lights a bit and lay some carpet, I'll be in TNG heaven
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