Does the current state of Star Trek say anything about what fans want?

[BillJ]

When the original Night Court premiered in January of 1984 it only survived a rocky midseason launch because NBC and Brandon Tartikoff had nothing else to put on in place of the show if they cancelled it. Within two years it was a huge hit and eventually boasted four consecutive Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series Emmys for John Larroquette.

1984 started out, let's just say, very poorly for NBC.

Also happened with Cheers and Seinfeld. Tartikoff was a visionary, or one hell of a poker player...

 

[cooleddie74]

Not even that high.

It peaked at 52nd in the year-end Nielsens. It only declined from there.

 

[BillJ]

It peaked at 52nd in the year-end Nielsens.

Nerd.

 

[cooleddie74]

I HAVE WIDE DEMOGRAPHIC APPEAL AMONGST ALL GROUPS OF DWEEBS, GOOFBALLS, SPAZZES AND NERDS.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What's a "woke filter"? Can I use it in Photoshop?

 

[Sci]

I love this, you guys are literally trying to dismiss well articulated points of criticism of the show.

You give yourself way too much credit here, slick.

Are you claiming there's no connection to conscientiousness/impulsivity and swearing?

Hold on. Are you saying there's a connection between impulsivity and swearing, or are you saying there's a connection between conscientiousness and swearing? And what level of swearing? What kinds of swearing? Are you claiming this applies across all languages, or only in English-speakers? Does this apply to words that have ceased to be considered obscene, such as "golly" (which was once considered the most obscene word in the English language, because it was a contraction for the term "God's Body," a heresy)?

Please, cite some legitimate academic sources.

 

[fireproof78]

Are you claiming there's no connection to conscientiousness/impulsivity and swearing?

I'm asking for citation. You made the claim. Please substantiate.

My literal point was that it doesn't matter, what you call it socialist utopia, good old boys, whatever it doesn't matter, the point is it had cross demographic appeal.

But that is limited now. TOS provided that it was very much a sandbox enviroment, and ranged in emotions, often between Kirk and Spock or McCoy and Spock.

You're tangenting from the point. The human emotions are set in an environment. Where the leads are expected to be at the height of a professional quasi military environment, where they'll be continously exposed to seemingly traumatic action on an episode by episode basis.

But they are not always at the height. That's the point, again, to experience the whole human adventure. By denying this one facet you are telling people whom that appeals to you don't matter.

So you think fandom is irrelevant then? Who watches is irrelevant? What do you think the relevant part of the conversation is then?

To hear your opinion. Not figures, not statistics, not reviews, not any thing like that. I like learning about people and their views. People like @BillJ , and @Sci , and @cooleddie74 , and @The Wormhole are people I have come to know over the years. Why? Because we post how we feel about a subject. If I wanted to read statistics I would easily utilize my libary and write up a paper. But, I don't want that. I want to hear about people. That's relevant to me. The rest of it can go pound sand because it has no impact on my life.

No, it didn't. It was constantly on the cancellation bubble and never rated higher than 51st in its three seasons on the air.

And has been built up to be more important than it ever was at the time.

Not even that high.

It peaked at 52nd in the year-end Nielsens. It only declined from there.

Hey! What did I just say about statistics!

 

[cooleddie74]

Woke Filters really sucked after Tom Waits kicked them off his tour.

 

[SalyutBuran]

Not that I love the Mandalorian, but it wasn't on fumes when Cara Dunn was on there, or Fenic Shawn was on there, but Katee Sackoff is and now it's on fumes?

*looks up the cast of the original Star Wars* Yup, somehow manage to make it with a strong female character. I have no clue what is being argued now, and I strongly suspect I don't want to.

You just inserted "Because it was a strong female character"

Boba Fett isn't a strong female character.

Katie Sackoff rocked on BSG, and was great on Longmire.

There's a very predictable difference.

Starbuck didn't prove that Adama/Tigh/Lee were incompetent individuals who couldn't do their own jobs/roles.

There was a back and fourth relationship between those characters. "the difference is my problems are personal, yours are professional". Isn't some trivial line it's the heart of what made Kara Thrace and Saul Tigh such an amazing tandem. Tight thrived in the structure, she thrived outside of it, but Kara Thrace never proved that the hierarchy was inherently wrong no matter how many times she went rogue. And it was framed in a post devastation environment. Tigh was securely the deeply flawed individual who thrived in the hierarchy. Kara was someone who thrived outside of it but failed within. In the modern variant tigh would have been reduced to bigoted old man in the first episode and there he would have stayed to exist as a strawman proving how great she is. The show is called Mandalorian he's the lead, you can't out mando the mando is just cuts the concept off by the knees.

Disney wanted multiple mando's because they don't want to be paying Pedro pascal 20 million a year to do a show. As soon as Sackoff came on it was clear, the agenda was to marginalize the character and branch out. The literally created Bobba Fett for the same reason.

 

[BillJ]

But they are not always at the height. That's the point, again, to experience the whole human adventure. By denying this one facet you are telling people whom that appeals to you don't matter.

I think some people, like @SalyutBuran, forget these are TV shows. Their first job is to entertain, not be a treatise on military etiquette.

 

[fireproof78]

Disney wanted multiple mando's because they don't want to be paying Pedro pascal 20 million a year to do a show. As soon as Sackoff came on it was clear, the agenda was to marginalize the character and branch out. The literally created Bobba Fett for the same reason.

Ok, well, I don't buy that even for one dollar.

he show is called Mandalorian he's the lead, you can't out mando the mando is just cuts the concept off by the knees.

Damn straight I can.

I think some people, like @SalyutBuran, forget these are TV shows. Their first job is to entertain, not be a treatise on military etiquette.

To true.

 

[cooleddie74]

Wow. I'm not saying these arguments have little weight but Sally Struthers just volunteered to help get them a square meal.

 

[BillJ]

Disney wanted multiple mando's because they don't want to be paying Pedro pascal 20 million a year to do a show. As soon as Sackoff came on it was clear, the agenda was to marginalize the character and branch out.

Huh? The job of any popular TV show is to branch out. That is one way that studios can recoup costs. Also, I've watched the first two seasons of The Mandolorian and don't see where he's been marginalized.

 

[fireproof78]

Huh? The job of any popular TV show is to branch out. That is one way that studios can recoup costs. Also, I've watched the first two seasons of The Mandolorian and don't see where he's been marginalized.

Indeed. I may dislike Din as a character, but he has always been center stage.

 

[The Wormhole]

Disney wanted multiple mando's because they don't want to be paying Pedro pascal 20 million a year to do a show. As soon as Sackoff came on it was clear, the agenda was to marginalize the character and branch out. The literally created Bobba Fett for the same reason.

Isn't one of the common complaints about Book of Boba Fett that halfway through it essentially abandoned Boba Fett and became season 2.5 of The Mandalorian?

 

[BillJ]

It has been fun folks. Gonna sign off for the night. Don't take it too hard that people don't agree with you @SalyutBuran, study up on more than just pure statistics, you'll find humans are fickle creatures that will embrace one thing then unceremoniously dump something almost exactly like it. Analytics will never know what we want, because we don't know what we want until we get it.

 

[cooleddie74]

Rely too much on the "experts' " math to enjoy something and you're destined for misery.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've never been blown away by the Mandalorian, the show and the character. Almost anyone on screen is usually more interesting than Din. Should I explain why I'm right and everyone who likes it is wrong?

 

[cooleddie74]

Here's my eight-paragraph essay on why ENT is awesome and if you don't like Trip and Malcolm you not only lack Faith of the Heart but are probably an agent of evil time travelers from the 29th Century.

 

[SalyutBuran]

Bold added for emphasis.

See, that there is the issue. What you're looking for is not conscientiousness.

This isn't a surface level topic, it's something that is hammered into the essence of star trek. Regardless of whether or not you claim starfleet is a Utopia,

At the end of the day no matter what job the person does, no matter what they look like, you respect a character because they're organized, honest, hard working, thoughtful, disciplined etc. Nog being a perfect example of this, he begins as a very unlikable kid and over time builds himself as being the embodiment of impressive.

You're looking for a form of storytelling with what I would charitably call simpler character writing. You are, in other words, looking for the repetition of a plot formula with little in the way of depth of characterization.

Learn to walk before you try running and end rolling around on the floor.

Picard is the perfect example of someone who is only interested because of his discipline. The Borg inccident has some much power because his self control was stolen from him, not only was it stolen from him, but exactly because he was such a competent individual he was able to do the most damage to the federation and because he's such a conscientious person it bothers him. He doesn't give up on being a captain, because we as the audience and they as character believe in the value of the hierarchy on a ship he wouldn't dream of giving up that captains chair. It's literally this drive and competence that caused the emotiional conflict in the following episodes of family.

If picard was just an ordinary person, he would have just been happy to have survived the borg incident, would have assumed he had no responsibilities for his actions and likely would have spent time wondering if being captain was even worth the effort.

That's fine, but that doesn't make your preference "objectively" better or its characters "conscientious." Dudley Do-Right is not more conscientious than Jay Gatsby; he's just from a more simplistic narrative.

The key is motivation, what does a star fleet character want to do with their life?, what are they driven by? Why do you respect the character?

When you see star trek whether or not you consciously or subconsciously think it out, some part of you want's to be in the captains chair. So does some small part of every character. It's the kind of thing that builds the feelings of a show.