Why is being a soldier inherently a bad thing to inspire someone to be? You realize that soldiers don't just go out and fight. For example, a LOT of NASA astronauts were military officers. Are they not something to aspire to be? Soldiers also do a lot of other work... relief efforts, Army Corps of Engineers, etc. After Hurricane Andrew hit us, we had major problems with looters and thieves. Then we had soldiers come to help stop those lowlifes. They helped keep the peace and stopped more bad things from happening. In addition, they helped bring in much needed supplies and aid when we had no eletricity or running water. Dr. Keller probably said it best in STARGATE ATLANTIS (I think it was in season 5's "INFECTION"), "Like doctors, a soldier's job is saving lives. They just have a different set of tools to do it." I'm all for more scientists and explorers, but soldiers are another area where the amount of women in that profession is not high. If you want equal representation of the sexes, why not have it across the board if they want to do it?
Seven is most certainly an engineer. (She was Stargazer's Borg tech expert. She created a warp core on Voyager.) I don't know many social workers who enslave their clients. Seven herself said that she took "thousands of lives." She probably assimilated AND killed over the course of those eighteen years she spent with the Borg. In "Infinite Regress," a good number of those assimilated personalities came to the surface!
I never said that it was a bad thing, but we always hear stories of how Star Trek has inspired famous scientists and technologists. As important and respected a role in society that being a soldier is, it would not quite be the same ‘vision’ if Star Trek’s intention was to inspire people to become soldiers? All Starfleet officers are trained to defend themselves, their crew mates and Federation ideologies, does this not make *all* Starfleet officers soldiers of sorts when necessary regardless of their field of speciality, though this is not often brought to the forefront on screen? I think that Star Trek should inspire people to defend what is morally right and just, though through the inspirational use of cooperation, diplomacy, creativity and ingenuity rather than force or violence. Starfleet ‘soldiers’ are peacekeepers and defenders of Federation freedoms and values. Of course, we all love a good phaser fight and the occasional starship battle. Sacrifice of Angel’s was outstanding, as was the Siege of AR-558. Fisty-cuffs such as in Amok Time are cool too. I disagree, Seven is (was) a Scientist though how the Picard writers develop her is down to their own interpretations of the character. Seven developed and ran an Astrometrics lab which is her most prominent role on Voyager. Seven also has vast knowledge of sciences and physics, such as in the incident involving particle 010. Would Seven not be more of an astrophysicist or quantum physicist rather than an engineer? Also, in Voyager we only ever saw Seven in science blue, not engineering gold. Of course, Seven does have strong tendencies towards an engineering skill set, so she could quite easily have fit in to an engineering department, I think that she even helped to augment the Delta Flyer with Borg tech? Overall though, I think that Seven was a scientist and that this should have been reflected more in Picard, rather than her purely being shown as a generic action hero. I think that because Seven has a well rounded and strong knowledge and understandings of a lot of different fields, including her ability to fight and defend when necessary, it would add to her ability to be an amazing Captain one day.
Seven DID help develop the Version 2 of Quantum Slipstream drive after all. So, but I do agree she was predominantly akin to a science officer than an engineer... she did help Torres occasionally when the situation arose, mainly due to her vast knowledge.
Engineers make the science work. Seven had the ability to make her own science work, working alongside engineers. A warp core or slipstream drive can be built from blueprints. The physics behind them needs scientists. These roles can be interchangeable to some extent depending on specialism and fields of expertise. Was Chief O’Brien a scientist or an engineer? I would lean more towards him being an engineer. Geordie? Perhaps a bit of both, though more engineer still in my opinion. Scotty was an engineer through and through.
It's a matter of concentration, of focus. Everything the Borg did was in the service of assimilation and conquest.
Seven had no free will or self determination as a Borg drone, she was not even an individual, acting more as a vessel harbouring one shared interconnected hive mind made up of the voices of billions of other victims. Having been assimilated as a child Seven had no defined adult personality until rescued by Voyager, she was not capable of any passion for science or engineering as a Borg - victims of assimilation are used as tools. I think that Seven should not be defined be her time in the Collective just as much as Picard should not be for his brief stint - both characters had no free will, self identity or individuality. It is easy for ex Borg to become scapegoats for those affected by the Collective, as they can become focal points for the anger over the terrible actions of the Borg, this was shown most recently in the latest Picard episode “No Win Scenario” with Captain Shaw. Seven was technically not a soldier of the Borg either, she was a drone. Borg drones do have speciality roles within the Collective though *all* drones are capable of being deployed tactically from what we have seen. Just think of the Collective as a big nest of insects, acting as a swarm to either build and expand a hive or defend it; though perhaps the swarm may even invade another insects nest with their natural instinct for expansion. The actions of the insects as a coordinated whole gets the job done, just like with Borg drones. It is interesting to note Seven’s full designation - Seven of Nine Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix One. Unimatrix One was the Borg Queen’s Unicomplex, a central hub for the Queen to be physically based. As a drone, Seven must have worked quite closely to the Queen. ‘Tertiary’ means ‘third’ or ‘third in line’, ‘Adjunct’ means adding something to something else as a supplementary yet none essential part. Could this mean that Seven was somehow in line to become a Borg Queen? Third in line as a ‘spare’? Seven’s full name implies that she is Seven of Nine ‘third spare part of Unimatrix Zero One’?
Drafting is a human ‘social’ military construct, conscription, which may or may not include coercion. The Borg do not draft they are more an uncontrollable force of nature, consuming all that they encounter through assimilation without ego, politics and no agenda other than an instinctive urge for expansion and enhancement. The Borg are like a ravaging virus, adding their victims biological and technological distinctiveness to improve themselves and expand. Someone who is drafted militarily still has free will, a sense of being and emotions even if they are being coerced, the Borg never have free will. Drones have no choices or even limited personal freedoms. Someone who is assimilated has no control of themselves or their actions, they become a mindless drone with no sense of loyalty, fear, love or joy. All individuality is lost. I think that the misconception is comparing and thinking of the Borg Collective in a similar way to an ‘old fashioned’ standard network of computers, where as the Collective is more like a cloud based computer network - with all of the interchangeable, replaceable and disposable drones connected to the hive mind being the equivalent of ‘thin clients’. The Borg Queen would be a bit like a standard ‘personal computer’ with more processing power attached to a thin client cloud based network, giving the Queen more ability to ‘process’ and coordinate the collective conciousness ‘In the cloud’. Borg Queens may need to come from species with extremely powerful minds capable of handling the ‘load’ of the Collective. I hope that all makes sense, I am trying to simplify my thoughts about this! The Borg Queen in season 2 said a lot of things. Borg Queens tend to use more human language and terminology, especially the one in Picard season 2 . Borg Queen are an avatar for the Collective Consciousness, an embodiment of billions *highly* filtered through one mind for communication purposes and centralisation as mentioned above. If a Queen is killed, the Collective that the Queen was filtering a projection of still exists in the ‘cloud based network’, all that the Collective would need as a replacement is a new vessel capable of the role. Borg Queens may be hard to come by though….
Exactly on all points. Well put! Why not? Kirk is a fucking soldier, by his own description. Spock is a scientist. There is room for both and both are aspirational and should not be diminished in the name of a odd perception of "importance" and "inspiration."
I would argue that Kirk is primarily an explorer, seeking out new life and new civilisations… boldly going where no one has gone before. If you read my post above I mentioned that *all* Starfleet officers could potentially be soldiers depending on the situation, Kirk and Seven included. But this is not a primary mission. I think that the big question should be “Is Starfleet a military?”.
Kirk calls himself a soldier. You going to dispute that? So what? I mentioned by friend who is in the US Army as a Social Worker and an officer. Is that not inspirational? Out of respect for the mods here I will not reply here.
That *is* totally inspirational. Seven could be a soldier in Starfleet along with *all* other officers if Starfleet is indeed considered to be a military or as having military aspects to it, but I believe that Seven is a scientist/engineer and explorer first and foremost. The Military Assault Command Operations in the series Enterprise *were* soldiers, but I believe that they are now disbanded or perhaps ‘absorbed’ in to Starfleet.
Why can't she be both? Kirk is a soldier; he describes himself as a soldier. And now people are bending that all around to make him not a soldier so that he can be inspirational? I find this whole thing to be a solution in search of a problem...
Starfleet is structured along military lines (they use military ranks and enforce military discipline). She's all of that AND a soldier.
Lots of organisations have military structures and ranks, that does not necessarily make them a military though, does it. I never said that Seven is not or cannot be a fictional soldier, just that from her past character traits and development I never imagined her being one. I would prefer Seven to have been inspiration for aspiring scientists or technologists as well as being a strong leader eventually as Captain of a starship, preferably the Enterprise - a ship that in some episodes she may need to lead in to battle if the story calls for it. As I have also mentioned before, *all* Starfleet crew may have to be soldiers one day if faced with combat, but being a soldier is *not* the main job of people serving in Starfleet which is an organisation tasked with the mission of exploring space, seeking out new life and making new scientific discoveries. I do not think that fictional make believe characters on a science fiction show should be painted as inspiration for people to become soldiers, such inspiration should come from *real* soldiers who are *real* role models having experienced life on the field, both the good and the bad sides of the profession - inspiration from *real* heroes who may have even seen the true horrors of war. Also, inspiration from belief in a real life cause which an aspiring soldier may want to sign up for because they truly believe in what they may one day have to fight for, whether that cause be patriotism or the desire to take part in peacekeeping or humanitarian missions… not inspiration from battling the Borg or the Dominion. Star Trek is all about the imagination, imagination inspires creativity and invention. Real life should inspire people to enter in to a profession such as the military, in my opinion. People such as @fireproof78 ’s friend mentioned above should be inspiration and role models. People should not build up fantasy ideas about what the military is based on from what they see on a sci-if TV show, or they may be very disappointed when they find out that the real military is nothing like what they saw on TV. I myself have *never* imagined Seven as a soldier, only as a strong minded woman and a scientist. I did in no way say that soldiers themselves or their real life stories cannot be inspiration. Neither Jeri Ryan or Seven of Nine are real soldiers, though I do know that Jeri Ryan’s father was a Sergeant in the US army so she probably has a lot of insight in to what a soldier and a leader is as an actress.
We're going around in circles. You can't always have what you want (Seven doesn't). I doubt that very much. Not a day goes by when I don't see a returning soldier who's missing a limb or two (there's a VA hospital a few miles from my house). You want to know what war does to a person? Volunteer inside a veteran's hospital. You'll meet people who are paraplegics, missing limbs, and/or carrying shrapnel inside of them. #Heroes #AllGaveSomeSomeGaveAll My father was a Lieutenant in the Army during WWII.
True, but non-military agencies don't typically have their own Judge Advocate Generals and courts-martial. Starfleet certainly isn't militant or military by doctrine or "organisational psychology", but all the evidence that they are military legally (similar to the US Coast Guard or the Japanese Self-Defence Forces)