Tube on Genesis best way to go?

[Grant]

We all know the story -- the test screenings for TWOK were fantastic until Spock dies and then the audiences were sad and angry. So how to tweak the movie to give fans hope?

So adjust a few things -- "Genesis is life from lifelessness" Add Kirk's "I must return to this planet..."

But really, the tube safely on Genesis?? Did they need to get so specific so many months before a script was even started?
Could they have not hinted at his return without jamming in your face that he was going to be alive somehow on the planet?

I may be biased as I felt they shouldn't have brought him back as "exact same Spock" anyway.

I love McCoy's line at the end of TWOK, "He's really not dead as long as we remember him."

 

[Vger23]

I think that, given that TWOK is overwhelmingly considered a sci-fi classic and hands-down the best of the franchise films, I'm not leaning toward changing much of how the end product was presented to the world.

 

[fireproof78]

But really, the tube safely on Genesis?? Did they need to get so specific so many months before a script was even started?

Yes.

Probably because the anger was so severe.

 

[Jeyl]

On one hand, sure. I don't think we need to see it intact on the surface. I would have bought the explanation in III well enough (Although seeing it on the surface in II does avoid an overt retcon in that regard). But I wouldn't touch the film as is now even if I made my own cut. Not because I don't want to alter what is, I just don't want to remove any of James Horner's music for that scene. It's so good!

 

[DonIago]

We all know the story -- the test screenings for TWOK were fantastic until Spock dies and then the audiences were sad and angry. So how to tweak the movie to give fans hope?

So adjust a few things -- "Genesis is life from lifelessness" Add Kirk's "I must return to this planet..."

But really, the tube safely on Genesis?? Did they need to get so specific so many months before a script was even started?
Could they have not hinted at his return without jamming in your face that he was going to be alive somehow on the planet?

I may be biased as I felt they shouldn't have brought him back as "exact same Spock" anyway.

I love McCoy's line at the end of TWOK, "He's really not dead as long as we remember him."

I was quite young when I saw TWOK for the first time, but I remember seeing the tube gave me a surge of hopefulness for the future to offset the loss and sadness I'd been feeling for the majority of the last act of the film.

So I'm all in favor of showing the tube.

It's arguable whether bringing Spock back largely intact was a good call, but that's not a TWOK problem.

 

[Tosk]

The reason showing the tube is perfect is because it doesn't tell you anything and doesn't promise anything.
Even if there was never a Star Trek III, the last shot of II is great, and it works. One last "look" at the beloved character, and a voice over from him to remind us of what we've lost.

That said, I probably wouldn't have used Kirk's lines about coming back.

 

[Bea Jonas]

When I saw STIII in a packed theater back in 1984, a ripple of laughter greeted the line about "Captain Spock's Tube".

 

[Set Harth]

For some reason, when the tube was on the screen, my father was already standing in the theater's exit door yelling that we had to leave.

 

[Warped9]

I believe in TSFS when they find the tube David remarks, “It must have soft landed.” That suggests no one expected the tube to survive after being fired. Perhaps they expected it to burn up in the atmosphere?

 

[DonIago]

I believe in TSFS when they find the tube David remarks, “It must have soft landed.” That suggests no one expected the tube to survive after being fired. Perhaps they expected it to burn up in the atmosphere?

I think in the novelizations of TWoK and TSFS it's stated that Kirk intended for the tube to burn up and that Saavik took it upon herself to reprogram the tube's trajectory, and Kirk's apparently a little peeved when he finds out that it's intact (rather less so once he finds out why McCoy's being all binky-bonkers). I'm not really sure what the point of this plot point was, though.

 

[Warped9]

It doesn’t make sense. Kirk says to Sarek, “I saw no future.” given he doesn’t know yet that Spock’s tube is still intact—he thinks it burned up. But then he’s willing to steal a ship to go back to the planet and find what? He doesn’t yet know what the Grissom has found.

 

[DonIago]

Yeah, the (great; seriously, IIRC the movie starts about halfway through the book!) novelization of TSFS handled things a bit differently and more sensibly. IIRC, Kirk's keeping an eye on Grissom's logs, so by the time Sarek pays him a visit Kirk knows that the tube soft-landed, though he doesn't know that Spock's body has been rejuvenated.

Of course, in the film, Kirk likely equally told Sarek he saw no future because Spock was dead and had always been close-lipped to Kirk about Vulcan traditions, so he apparently had no idea that katras were even a thing.

You're right that if Kirk believes the tube burned up then going back to Genesis makes little sense...except that McCoy is asking him to go back, so there must be a reason for it? One kind of has to assume that Kirk somehow knows (or has reason to suspect?) the tube soft-landed, or that he's just going to Genesis because that's where McCoy is asking him to go.

 

[PhotoBoy]

Didn’t TSFS originally open with the scenes on the Grissom where the stardate and Genesis planet captions pop up? I think they re-cut the film to start with Kirk and the Enterprise rather than have the audience wait 20 mins before the main stars appeared.

That said, regardless of how it was edited, the film definitely needed a scene where Kirk finds out Spock’s body has been rejuvenated. Without that knowledge there’s really no logical reason for him and the Enterprise crew to throw their careers away stealing the Enterprise and going to Genesis. Sarek himself says “only Spock’s body was in death”, he only expected Kirk to bring Spock’s katra to Vulcan, not go and haul Spock’s corpse off Genesis on the way.

If they made TWOK today, the shot of the torpedo tube would have been after the end credits and would have definitely have shown the lid opening and a hand emerging.

 

[Grant]

The movie was originally very front heavy with, David, Saavik and Grissom and I see the logic of reordering it -- but they could have left the first scene (which in the final cut is the first half of the first scene) on Grissom up front. In that scene they find the tube intact and Kirk's subsequent Log reflected that knowledge. They re-recorded his log to omit his knowledge of the intact tube -- thus creating a logical gap in the story.
Here is the first scene with the cut lines bolded.

Spoiler

SAAVIK

(crossing bridge)

We are approaching destination

planet at point zero three five.

So noted in ship's log.



She delivers the log to the Captain as ANGLE WIDENS to

include CAPTAIN ESTEBAN, late forties, a cautious Star-

fleet veteran. Behind him, various OFFICERS on

station.



ESTEBAN

Very well, Lieutenant. Execute

standard orbital approach.



HELMSMAN

Standard orbit, aye.



ESTEBAN

Communications. Send a coded

message for Starfleet Commander,

priority one... "Federation

Science Vessel Grissom arriving

Genesis Planet, Mutara Sector to

begin search. As ordered, full

security procedures are in effect.

J.T. Esteban, commanding."



COMM OFFICER

Aye sir, coding now.



ESTEBAN

(turning)

Dr. Marcus, it's your planet.



ANGLE WIDENS to reveal DAVID MARCUS, mid-twenties, who

will be remembered as the co-creator of Genesis, and

also as Kirk's son.



DAVID

Thank you, Captain. Begin

scanning, please.



Saavik has taken a position next to David at the sci-

ence panel and together they begin activating the de-

vices.



DAVID

(continuing;

enthusiastically)

This is where the fun begins,

Saavik!



SAAVIK

(working)

Like your father... so human.

(then)

All units functional, recorders

are on... Scanning sector one.

Foliage in fully developed state

of growth. Temperature, twenty-

two point two Celsius.



DAVID

Sector two... Indicating desert

terrain. Minimal vegetation,

temperature thirty-nine point

four.



SAAVIK

Sector three... Sub-tropical

vegetation... Temperature --

(puzzled)

Temperature decreasing rapidly --



DAVID

It's snow. Snow in the same

sector. Fantastic!



SAAVIK

... Fascinating.



DAVID

All the varieties of land and

weather known to Earth within a

few hours walk!



SAAVIK

(to him)

You must be very proud of what you

and your mother have created.



DAVID

(checking)

It's a little early to celebrate.



Suddenly... BEEP... BEEP... BEEP... a new and unique

SOUND is heard from the MONITORS. Saavik flicks con-

trols and a new image appears on screen.



SAAVIK

Same sector. Metallic mass.



DAVID

Underground deposit?



SAAVIK

Negative, on surface... A

manufactured object.



DAVID

There's only one thing it could

be... Short range scan.



Saavik complies. David’s intensity rises. Captain

Esteban, curious about the BEEPS, has joined them.



SAAVIK

Approximately two meters long...

Cylindrical in form...



DAVID

A photon tube...!



ESTEBAN

Could it be Spock's?



DAVID

It has to be. Gravitational

fields were in flux... It must

have soft landed...!



ESTEBAN

(to Comm Officer)

In code to STARFLEET...

Captain's Spock's tube located

intact on Genesis surface. Will

relay more data on subsequent

orbits.



COMM OFFICER

Yes sir... Coding your message.

 

[DonIago]

I wonder whether the novelization worked off that version of the script or whether the author just felt an obligation to plug in the holes. The former seems more likely, but as I noted above, there's still all kinds of great material in the novel that probably never existed in any of the scripts, including Carol and a visit to the Regula One cave that prefigures what Saavik and David will find at Genesis.

The TWoK novelization also had some significant expansion (most notably Khan's arrival at Regula One, which was...graphic...) but not, in my estimation, to the same degree.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: they're both great reads.

 

[Qonundrum]

When I saw STIII in a packed theater back in 1984, a ripple of laughter greeted the line about "Captain Spock's Tube".

Of all the things I never understood unless it was pointed out, it'd be that...