Is Starfleet Military?

[Shamrock Holmes]

Realistically, there would almost certainly be a Starfleet Special Operations division. In the canon, there is something called Starfleet Tactical, but we don't know much about what they do.

Given that the only explicit member of Starfleet Tactical that we've ever encountered was Shelby in Best of Both Worlds the only explicit parallel that can be drawn would be to Military R & D units like DARPA or the US Army's Test and Evaluation Command.

Ro Laren graduated from a program called Advanced Tactical Training before returning to the Enterprise-D and then defecting to the Maquis; it's possible this might be a special operations division a la the U.S. Navy's SEAL Team Six or the U.K. Royal Navy's Special Boat Service.

Considering that "tactical officer" is used to describe officers (usually security and/or armory but other options are possible) assigned to operate the primary weapons on the bridge of Federation starships and that the Chief Tactical Officer is often high up in the chain-of-command of most starships, I've typically assumed that Advanced Tactical Training was (at least in part) related to advanced starship handling, in addition to combat training in general and at least some training in undercover work (though I would expect Advanced Intelligence Training to do more of this).

That said, I am in favour of Starfleet having specialist forces designed to deploy at minor unit or sub-unit level at short notice and Starfleet Tactical could easily have some of these within its jurisdiction (given that most of the team wasn't engineers, Lt Larkin's unit at AR-558 should be a decent candidate for one of these). Certainly it makes a lot more sense for Starfleet to place the more "conventionally military" units at this level (it also follows UK Naval Service policy for the Royal Marines FWIW) rather than as a very public "top level command" as with the USMC.

 

[Sci]

Given that the only explicit member of Starfleet Tactical that we've ever encountered was Shelby in Best of Both Worlds the only explicit parallel that can be drawn would be to Military R & D units like DARPA or the US Army's Test and Evaluation Command.



Considering that "tactical officer" is used to describe officers (usually security and/or armory but other options are possible) assigned to operate the primary weapons on the bridge of Federation starships and that the Chief Tactical Officer is often high up in the chain-of-command of most starships, I've typically assumed that Advanced Tactical Training was (at least in part) related to advanced starship handling, in addition to combat training in general and at least some training in undercover work (though I would expect Advanced Intelligence Training to do more of this).

That said, I am in favour of Starfleet having specialist forces designed to deploy at minor unit or sub-unit level at short notice and Starfleet Tactical could easily have some of these within its jurisdiction (given that most of the team wasn't engineers, Lt Larkin's unit at AR-558 should be a decent candidate for one of these). Certainly it makes a lot more sense for Starfleet to place the more "conventionally military" units at this level (it also follows UK Naval Service policy for the Royal Marines FWIW) rather than as a very public "top level command" as with the USMC.

Yeah, I mean, my biggest reason for thinking that Starfleet might have a special operations unit within Starfleet Tactical is that the mission Ro is on when she defects, to infiltrate the Maquis and sabotage their operations from within, seems like it could plausibly be a special operations mission.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Isn't Chakotay supposed to have been Ro's training officer in Starfleet Tactical?

 

[Sci]

^ Isn't Chakotay supposed to have been Ro's training officer in Starfleet Tactical?

Timing doesn't work out. Chakotay resigned from Starfleet in 2368, and Ro was taking the ATT course from 2369 to 2370. According to Memory Alpha's entry on him, the idea that Chakotay was one of Ro's instructors comes from the TNG Companion and the official website but never actually appeared onscreen.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

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[Quantum21]

Probably the best answer to the question anyone here's given. Myself included. Well done.

Very precise eh?

 

[NCC-73515]

How can you militarize something that is already a military?

 

[Citiprime]

How can you militarize something that is already a military?

There is a line in Star Trek (2009), where in Pike’s argument to Kirk in the bar for joining Starfleet, he calls Starfleet “a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada.”

 

[Orphalesion]

Come to think of it...maybe "Military" has become a more negative word in future human speech? It could be that after WWIII and the Post Atomic Horror the word military was associated with all that death and destruction and terror and warlords and such.
So Starfleet might be a (23rd/24th century version of) military but they avoid using that word due to negative, historical baggage.

 

[Tallguy]

How can you militarize something that is already a military?

When you're going to Into Darkness for your view of the Star Trek universe you might be on shaky ground.

There is a line in Star Trek (2009), where in Pike’s argument to Kirk in the bar for joining Starfleet, he calls Starfleet “a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada.”

No, he calls the FEDERATION an armada. Because... JJ.

I was thinking that it might be fun to give NASA the so called not-military powers that Starfleet demonstrably and unobjectionably has (within our technological limitations, of course). I'm sure there would be no problems with the weaponry or the new peacekeeping roles because none of them would be considered "military".

Come to think of it...maybe "Military" has become a more negative word in future human speech? It could be that after WWIII and the Post Atomic Horror the word military was associated with all that death and destruction and terror and warlords and such.
So Starfleet might be a (23rd/24th century version of) military but they avoid using that word due to negative, historical baggage.

In the future? It's happening in this thread! And clearly in the writer's rooms of many Star Trek shows.

 

[Orphalesion]

In the future? It's happening in this thread! And clearly in the writer's rooms of many Star Trek shows.

I was talking in-universe though.

 

[Tallguy]

I was talking in-universe though.

Sure. But it does illustrate what has come up a couple of times in the thread. There is no objection to the roles and responsibilities (or the weapons or the shows of force) but it's the WORD.

"But why should I object to that term, sir? You see, in our century we've learned not to fear words." (From an episode so awesome that real newscasters quote it as REAL Abraham Lincoln quotes!)

 

[fireproof78]

No, he calls the FEDERATION an armada. Because... JJ.

Because typo and writer's strike and they couldn't fix it.

In the future? It's happening in this thread! And clearly in the writer's rooms of many Star Trek shows.

Indeed and it's a more fascinating lens in to the psychology of the person posting it than anything in universe. In universe Kirk can be a soldier, Picard can be a tactician, and they can have military drills. But don't call Starfleet "military" because...it's a scary word?

"But why should I object to that term, sir? You see, in our century we've learned not to fear words."

Yes, but we fear emotions now.

 

[JesterFace]

Militaries of our day, what actually is the military in the future?

The legal definition cannot change. You cannot be sometimes the military and sometimes not. Either they are empowered to protect the boarders of their nation and support their nation's interests in combat or they are not.

But if.... the word 'military' is more than protecting borders and all that stuff in the 24th century?
What would that do to the definition on that particular word?
I doubt there will be consensus about this subject here any time soon.
So, Starfleet is an organization with many tasks, scientific research, hosting diplomatic meetings, rescue missions, mapping our galaxy, contacting new species and if needed it is able to protect Federation planets, with force if needed.

 

[fireproof78]

So, Starfleet is an organization with many tasks, scientific research, hosting diplomatic meetings, rescue missions, mapping our galaxy, contacting new species and if needed it is able to protect Federation planets, with force if needed.

Yes, yes it is. Militaries can do that too.

 

[JesterFace]

Yes, yes it is. Militaries can do that too.

So that could make Starfleet partially military. =)

 

[The Wormhole]

No, that still makes Starfleet military, unless you consider today's militaries engaging in scientific reasearch, search and rescue, mapping and whatever also makes them only "partially military."

 

[fireproof78]

So that could make Starfleet partially military. =)

Not really, no.

 

[JesterFace]

Not really, no.

Well, then we have a problem and I think the problem might be how military translates into Finnish?

 

[Nyotarules]

There is a line in Star Trek (2009), where in Pike’s argument to Kirk in the bar for joining Starfleet, he calls Starfleet “a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada.”

Pike drank the kool aid, and sold it to Kirk. Using the term 'humanitarian' was a poor word choice and from an in universe perspective, speciest humancentric nonsense