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Superman

I find John Williams' theme more iconic than the 1978 movie. But . . . Warner Bros and Gunn need to find a new composer and a new theme. Why is that such a problem?

They have! Multiple times. Probably the most famous examples being Shirley Walker for Superman: The Animated Series and Hans Zimmer for Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice. The problem is, nothing sticks!

What is this need to cling to the past?

I don't think it's clinging to the past. I think the John Williams theme has just so transcended the film it came from that for most people, it doesn't even register as a nostalgia thing, anymore than the James Bond theme registers as nostalgia, or the Star Wars theme registers as nostalgia, or the Indiana Jones or Harry Potter themes register as nostalgia. For most people, that's just the Superman theme, same way his costume is blue and his logo is an "S" and he wears a red cape.
 
This was primarily in the 70s, which was a rough time for the industry and each company faced serious financial constraints. People complain about inflation today but it was, in most ways, harder on the 70s than now.

Saw a nice documentary about comics history recently.

In 1978 Dc doubled their titles, They called this the DC explosion, increased the page counts and the price point... A couple months later they canceled 30 books, which was sarcastically referred to as the DC Implosion.
 
You'd think they might have realized offering less while charging more is a quick way to drive off more of their once-loyal readerships.



Hire Danny Elfman. I'll say no more.

Or hire Williams to do it again, but with a different theme ;)
 
Yes, keep telling yourself that the levels of creative success achieved by two entirely different composers relative to one-another have anything to do with the astonishing levels of success achieved by the greatest living film composer.

There's nothing "astonishing" about Williams' Superman score. The shameless copy+pasting of work created for an older project reaches only one conclusion: a lack of originality and creativity in an approach to new projects. It is the same, glassy-eyed lack of creativity which prodded Singer to create an entire film living from the fumes of another work, and its poor reception was the expected response. That applies to the score as much as what passed for a script and what was trotted in front of cameras. Horner was working on a film that was part of a continuing series, yet his score was not some slavish fanboy tribute to the near universally known Courage theme at all. He--like any composer assigned to a new project--had a job to do, and that did not mean drop to the knees and copy+paste work from an unrelated production.

You can worship the Williams music until doomsday, but Superman as a concept, or music which represents him--is not chained to, nor defined by the Salkind's production (thankfully), and any aggressive attempts to bond him to it leads to something never desired by audiences and ultimately rejected, such as the Singer film.

If Gunn has an ounce of sense in his head, he will define his Superman film as an original work, not lose any sense of creativity by grafting the memory of an old production to his own.


To me, Williams score is specific to Christopher Reeve's Superman.

Agreed. Williams himself never borrowed or felt the need to stitch James Bernard's powerful, unprecedented score for Horror of Dracula (1958) to his own for Dracula (1979). Williams' Dracula was specific to that film, and despite how magnificent and memorable the entire composition was, the next major Dracula film--Francis Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992)--did not refer to it at all.

Recognizing the need to create an original score for original work is common sense. There's no mass outcry from audiences who want to be reminded of unrelated productions.

It doesn't work for Cavill's Superman which is a very different take--and including it in future film score projects would similar to Superman Returns. It just wouldn't work.

Well put. Similar to how Rupert Gregson-Williams' score for Wonder Woman (2017) was an entirely unique work--perfectly fit for a new approach to the character, hence the reason no one in their right mind was going to refer to Charles Fox's very popular theme from the '76-'79 Wonder Woman TV series in the film. Any attempt to do so would have been nothing more than fanservice completely out of tone, intent and sync with said new approach to the character, one with no connection to that TV series.
 
There's nothing "astonishing" about Williams' Superman score. The shameless copy+pasting of work created for an older project reaches only one conclusion: a lack of originality and creativity in an approach to new projects.

I absolutely cannot take this ridiculous hyperbolic attack on the greatest living film composer seriously enough to even read the rest of your post. Have fun repeating nonsense that doesn't reflect reality. :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:
 
What would it take for Disney to go under?
People to stop buying.

I mean, it would take a lot, because their reach is quite large, from ESPN, to ABC, and other branches, but if people stop buying, including Marvel, then the money slowly fades away. But, it has to be purposeful.
 
There's nothing "astonishing" about Williams' Superman score. The shameless copy+pasting of work created for an older project reaches only one conclusion: a lack of originality and creativity in an approach to new projects. It is the same, glassy-eyed lack of creativity which prodded Singer to create an entire film living from the fumes of another work, and its poor reception was the expected response. That applies to the score as much as what passed for a script and what was trotted in front of cameras. Horner was working on a film that was part of a continuing series, yet his score was not some slavish fanboy tribute to the near universally known Courage theme at all. He--like any composer assigned to a new project--had a job to do, and that did not mean drop to the knees and copy+paste work from an unrelated production.

You can worship the Williams music until doomsday, but Superman as a concept, or music which represents him--is not chained to, nor defined by the Salkind's production (thankfully), and any aggressive attempts to bond him to it leads to something never desired by audiences and ultimately rejected, such as the Singer film.

If Gunn has an ounce of sense in his head, he will define his Superman film as an original work, not lose any sense of creativity by grafting the memory of an old production to his own.




Agreed. Williams himself never borrowed or felt the need to stitch James Bernard's powerful, unprecedented score for Horror of Dracula (1958) to his own for Dracula (1979). Williams' Dracula was specific to that film, and despite how magnificent and memorable the entire composition was, the next major Dracula film--Francis Coppola's Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992)--did not refer to it at all.

Recognizing the need to create an original score for original work is common sense. There's no mass outcry from audiences who want to be reminded of unrelated productions.



Well put. Similar to how Rupert Gregson-Williams' score for Wonder Woman (2017) was an entirely unique work--perfectly fit for a new approach to the character, hence the reason no one in their right mind was going to refer to Charles Fox's very popular theme from the '76-'79 Wonder Woman TV series in the film. Any attempt to do so would have been nothing more than fanservice completely out of tone, intent and sync with said new approach to the character, one with no connection to that TV series.
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I think people get upset with Disney more is because of it's vast reach and the fact it owns way more then other companies and wants to eat up more like a movie version of EA games which just gobbles up and assimilates companies spitting out the bones later.
 
I think people get upset with Disney more is because of it's vast reach and the fact it owns way more then other companies and wants to eat up more like a movie version of EA games which just gobbles up and assimilates companies spitting out the bones later.
I don't blame people for being upset.

I just wonder if it will motivate a change in behavior.
 
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