Superman

[The Realist]

I am going to have to hunt this one down now thank you. Oh and I love your use of words and vocabulary........ Avuncular is a fun word to say out loud and I never thought I'd see someone use it haha.

Thanks very much.

How was Noel Neill as Lois?

I think most fans prefer Phyllis Coates, who played Lois in the first season (and is the show's last surviving cast member at 96). Coates's Lois was more aggressive, acerbic, and tough, whereas Neill was softer in tone and manner. But Neill was nonetheless charming in the role, and was a great ambassador for Lois for decades after, appearing at many conventions and events, giving interviews, and doing several legacy guest shots in later "Super" productions (including Superman '78, The Adventures of Superboy, and Superman Returns). She's much beloved among fans, and deservedly so.

(One of the few regrets I have about Adventures of Superman, especially as a die-hard Clois shipper, is that there's little attention paid to any hint of romance between Lois and Clark, or even Lois and Superman. But again: time and target audience.)

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Thanks very much.

I think most fans prefer Phyllis Coates, who played Lois in the first season (and is the show's last surviving cast member at 96). Coates's Lois was more aggressive, acerbic, and tough, whereas Neill was softer in tone and manner. But Neill was nonetheless charming in the role, and was a great ambassador for Lois for decades after, appearing at many conventions and events, giving interviews, and doing several legacy guest shots in later "Super" productions (including Superman '78, The Adventures of Superboy, and Superman Returns). She's much beloved among fans, and deservedly so.

(One of the few regrets I have about Adventures of Superman, especially as a die-hard Clois shipper, is that there's little attention paid to any hint of romance between Lois and Clark, or even Lois and Superman. But again: time and target audience.)

Yeah I just watched the video I posted earlier and it was a tragic life Noel had.

Also Both Phyillis Coates and Noel Neill were not immune to the Hollywood machine and did a lot of cheesecake photos each.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

I might give it a go if I can find a physical copy cheap

If you get the H&I (Heroes & Icons) network on your cable package or over the air, Sunday mornings are 'Superhero Sundays' with Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman at 10am. Looking at their schedule, they just started with season one.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

If you get the H&I (Heroes & Icons) network on your cable package or over the air, Sunday mornings are 'Superhero Sundays' with Wonder Woman, Batman and Superman at 10am. Looking at their schedule, they just started with season one.

I'm in the boondocks in Australia, at the bottom of the world

 

[Anwar]

As @The Knappos pointed out, people with very real talent have definitely taken a crack at it. But nothing sticks like the Williams theme; it has ingrained itself into the Superman mythos in a way no other theme has.

I wonder what would have happened if Zimmer had tried to do a modern version of the Shirley Walker theme or George Reeves theme, like how Spider-Man Homecoming did an orchestra version of the 1960s Spider-Man theme.

 

[Sci]

I wonder what would have happened if Zimmer had tried to do a modern version of the Shirley Walker theme or George Reeves theme, like how Spider-Man Homecoming did an orchestra version of the 1960s Spider-Man theme.

Impossible to say, but for my money, Hans Zimmer, Shirley Walker, and Leon Klatzkin, while all very talented, are no John Williamses.

 

[The Realist]

I wonder what would have happened if Zimmer had tried to do a modern version of the Shirley Walker theme or George Reeves theme, like how Spider-Man Homecoming did an orchestra version of the 1960s Spider-Man theme.

I'd love to hear somebody quote the Adventures of Superman theme in a modern score. Just invoking a few notes would be enough, it's so recognizable.

 

[Anwar]

Impossible to say, but for my money, Hans Zimmer, Shirley Walker, and Leon Klatzkin, while all very talented, are no John Williamses.

I mean, we KNOW that popular characters can have multiple memorable themes. Folks remember Zimmers Dark Knight music as much as Danny Elfman's Batman music, and Spider-Man has had the 60s theme, the 90s cartoon theme, Elfman's Spidey music and his MCU themes.

So why can't Superman get more than 1 defining theme?

 

[Sci]

I mean, we KNOW that popular characters can have multiple memorable themes. Folks remember Zimmers Dark Knight music as much as Danny Elfman's Batman music, and Spider-Man has had the 60s theme, the 90s cartoon theme, Elfman's Spidey music and his MCU themes.

So why can't Superman get more than 1 defining theme?

No reason he can't. But he doesn't. None of his other themes have achieved the level of public love or insinuated themselves into the mythos the way Wiliams's theme has (because Williams is a better composer than all of the others).

 

[Smiley]

Since George Reeves as Superman came up, I wanted to share this classic bit of TV here where he guest stars on I Love Lucy:

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[TREK_GOD_1]

I mean, we KNOW that popular characters can have multiple memorable themes. Folks remember Zimmers Dark Knight music as much as Danny Elfman's Batman music, and Spider-Man has had the 60s theme, the 90s cartoon theme, Elfman's Spidey music and his MCU themes.

So why can't Superman get more than 1 defining theme?

Because some producers are single-minded with their need graft some subjective "iconic" status to music, particularly in work having no connection to an older production. The TOS movies proved a series can have more than one defining theme (after Alexander Courage's TV score) with Horner's scores for The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock; both captured all of what TOS and its characters represented, yet aside from using Courage's TOS opening for a moment (as a bridge from one chapter of the franchise to another), the rest was all original, yet defining, to the point many fans believed Horner's theme should have been used for the remainder of the TOS movies.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I have never, ever watched much of the George Reeves show.. Is it worth a watch?

Not really. Reeves is not really portraying Superman as much as Reeves walked through the role as an actor doing the same routine in and out of costume. Pre-Cavill, the best Superman was Kirk Alyn in the 1948 serial Superman--

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...and its 1950 sequel, Atom Man vs. Superman (featuring Lyle Talbot as the first live action Lex Luthor)--

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Alyn knew how to deliver a powerful Superman and "innocent" (but not bumbling and naive) Kent. Talbot added more menace as Luthor than most of the actors who followed him in the role.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Superman, superheroes I wonder if they ever suffer from chaffing with some of the funky costumes they wear

 

[Guy Gardener]

Superman, superheroes I wonder if they ever suffer from chaffing with some of the funky costumes they wear

A skiing super villain flunky asked Dean Cain's Superman that question once.

I think Kal said he used baby powder.

Baby powder is 90's Superman's signature scent.

Any one with half a brain might be wondering why Clark and Superman smell exactly the same unless Clark uses the scent Superman for Men.

There was a sleazy huxter that wanted to commercialize Superman, and Clark said sure, but all his money went to a children's charity.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

A skiing super villain flunky asked Dean Cain's Superman that question once.

I think Kal said he used baby powder.

Baby powder is 90's Superman's signature scent.

Any one with half a brain might be wondering why Clark and Superman smell exactly the same unless Clark uses the scent Superman for Men.

There was a sleazy huxter that wanted to commercialize Superman, and Clark said sure, but all his money went to a children's charity.

Haha oh my, a bit more information then I thought I'd get haha

 

[Sci]

Because some producers are single-minded with their need graft some subjective "iconic" status to music, particularly in work having no connection to an older production.

Sorry, but no. It's not because producers are "single-minded with their need to graft some subjective 'iconic' status to music." It's because the Williams theme is iconic and has resonated with the public to a far, far greater extent than any other theme, period.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Sorry, but no. It's not because producers are "single-minded with their need to graft some subjective 'iconic' status to music." It's because the Williams theme is iconic and has resonated with the public to a far, far greater extent than any other theme, period.

Heh at the "period" business. You are saying it is iconic, thus single-minded producers with unrelated productions feel the need to graft that theme to their work. Horner's Star Trek scores proved you are incorrect, since Courage's theme to TOS was and remains one of the most recognized and appreciated pieces of music for film media, yet Horner only used its opening as an introductory reference, then created a theme and score widely considered definitive for the TOS movies.

Success with original ideas--it exists.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Heh at the "period" business. You are saying it is iconic, thus single-minded producers with unrelated productions feel the need to graft that theme to their work. Horner's Star Trek scores proved you are incorrect, since Courage's theme to TOS was and remains one of the most recognized and appreciated pieces of music for film media, yet Horner only used its opening as an introductory reference, then created a theme and score widely considered definitive for the TOS movies.

Success with original ideas--it exists.

Then it seems you're placing the blame on the wrong party. The blame is on the talent of the musicians.
Horner is talented. That's why he succeeded.
Get someone more talented than the generic wall of sound Zimmer producers and a good Superman theme has a chance.
Until then, we can't be blamed if things they throw at us just don't measure up.

 

[Sci]

Heh at the "period" business. You are saying it is iconic, thus single-minded producers with unrelated productions feel the need to graft that theme to their work. Horner's Star Trek scores proved you are incorrect,

Yes, keep telling yourself that the levels of creative success achieved by two entirely different composers relative to one-another have anything to do with the astonishing levels of success achieved by the greatest living film composer. Horner's and Courage's themes definitely have anything whatsoever to do with the generations worth of audiences enthralled by John Williams's score. This is very, very logical.

 

[theenglish]

To me, Williams score is specific to Christopher Reeve's Superman. It worked well in Smallville because that was a television show and it made a point of making nods to the earlier movies. It doesn't work for Cavill's Superman which is a very different take--and including it in future film score projects would similar to Superman Returns. It just wouldn't work. This takes nothing away from the brilliance of Williams' score and does not diminish his status as being one of the greatest composers.

The Trek themes are different, because Trek is about more than a single character or a single ship--it is about the universe in which the shows and movies are set. I enjoy how both Goldsmith's and Courage's themes have been reworked over the years.